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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    3,108
    Quote Originally Posted by stonewallred View Post
    Gotta be able to do both, in order to understand what is going wrong.
    I can install to code, and bend metal to order. I was a sheet metal mechanic for a time at a large multinational company where the title sheet metal mechanic meant you were in charge of all the installers and were the interface with the GC and site foreman.

    Lot of prideful and blind folks on this site who seem to think, "Service techs are gods and all other folks in the field are dogs."

    I hate it, but I have done everything from change out transmission line transformers, to replace light bulbs, to running fiber optic cable 6'+ underground, to set and calibrate 14' shears capable of cutting to 1/64" of an inch to HVAC/R work, service, installs, and anything else that needs to be done.

    Every facet of a trade has it skill set and mastery. A master sheet metal worker would run circles around any service tech who knows how to install to code. Just as two of the members I know here in RL, are gurus of HVAC/R knowledge, so are a few of the installers you all seem quick to spit upon.
    Did you really thinking I was "spitting on" installers? Where do you think I started out? I started bending metal, sealing, and insulating, then piping and wiring, then starting and servicing, then service and T&B... Now I'm doing everything and anything they throw at me, but I have NEVER forgotten where I started and I am NEVER too proud to get my snips and fairmonts out of the toolbag! I constantly refer to my experiences as a duct-guy and part-time pipefitter, and I believe that it puts me head and shoulders above my closest colleagues who lack that fundamental trench-time.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    1,133
    Quote Originally Posted by BergerMech Rob View Post
    Did you really thinking I was "spitting on" installers? Where do you think I started out? I started bending metal, sealing, and insulating, then piping and wiring, then starting and servicing, then service and T&B... Now I'm doing everything and anything they throw at me, but I have NEVER forgotten where I started and I am NEVER too proud to get my snips and fairmonts out of the toolbag! I constantly refer to my experiences as a duct-guy and part-time pipefitter, and I believe that it puts me head and shoulders above my closest colleagues who lack that fundamental trench-time.
    Hmm, I could go Southern and say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps....

    But no, I was referring t several folks who called installers all kinds of names, impugned upon their abilities and made it seem as though anyone who is an installer is unworthy of any respect.

    One of my first call for my favorite ex-employer was being sent out with an installer, because I could deal with the high voltage. Spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out where the high voltage was.

    Had LV going to controls, had LV going to burner and fans, and LV to compressor. ( It was a residential oil furnace and AC swap out)

    And I worked for the multinational after I did HVAC/R service.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,108
    I am not the proverbial yelping dog. A misunderstanding is all it is, then.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,592
    Check the wall of shame for some installs I have found from the crews I described.

    'Nuff said.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    707
    I don't bad mouth installers. They are doing a job that I really don't care to do. I have seen many that work circles around me during an install. I have not seen to many that could actually trouble shoot. But there are some and they did not want to be service techs. They liked there 8 hr. days and being home with their families on holidays. But I am the one they called when in did not work. I do not consider my self as a prima donna. I'll do just about any job I am asked to do, unless it has to do with sewage. Its like I told my boss I'll do fresh water, I'll do condensate or loop water, but I do not do dodo.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
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    1,133
    Quote Originally Posted by BergerMech Rob View Post
    I am not the proverbial yelping dog. A misunderstanding is all it is, then.
    True enough.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Skokie , IL near chicago
    Posts
    1,134

    Confused dodo remark

    Quote Originally Posted by meoberry View Post
    I don't bad mouth installers. They are doing a job that I really don't care to do. I have seen many that work circles around me during an install. I have not seen to many that could actually trouble shoot. But there are some and they did not want to be service techs. They liked there 8 hr. days and being home with their families on holidays. But I am the one they called when in did not work. I do not consider my self as a prima donna. I'll do just about any job I am asked to do, unless it has to do with sewage. Its like I told my boss I'll do fresh water, I'll do condensate or loop water, but I do not do dodo.
    what a funny line meoberry , reminds me of the time i lost the coin toss to climb in a large , very old condensate receiving tank to unblock the pump inlet.....there was still 18" of rusty brown water in it that wouldn't drain , up to the manhole.....sooooo , after removing the obstruction to the pump inlet and inst. a new screen , when i got out of the tank it looked i had been swimming in a lake of the aforementioned DO-DO.....Thank goodness there was a shower facility on site and a borrowed maint. uniform.....Jack
    B[COLOR=a friend is one who knows us , but loves us anyway

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    Not saying installing is beneath me at all, just wish each person with their respective job titles could perform that job duty. I am simply wondering why some people at my company, not yours, can do both, and some people can't even do their own title, make sense? I see the majority of the people on this board can do both really well. I am trying to figure out why I can do both but not a single installer at my company, can barely do their own without some assistance from service. Hypothetically, if you were previously a service tech, and became an installer, you would at the minimum, know how to make that piece of equipment run at the end of the day.our install is extremely weak in low voltage wiring, however that is part of an install at a house.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    [QUOTE=stonewallred;11151702]Hmm, I could go Southern and say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps....

    But no, I was referring t several folks who called installers all kinds of names, impugned upon their abilities and made it seem as though anyone who is an installer is unworthy of any respect.

    One of my first call for my favorite ex-employer was being sent out with an installer, because I could deal with the high voltage. Spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out where the high voltage w

    Had LV going to controls, had LV going to burner and fans, and LV to compressor. ( It was a residential oil furnace and AC swap out)
    Exactly what I've been trying to say, in the meantime while you were babysitting this installer, your company lost even more money by you not being out on a service call and billing out time and material!

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    maroon lazyboy
    Posts
    1,048

    @ tigerman

    Do they even have an interest? Do they want to learn control wiring? Or are they actually unable.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by knave View Post
    Do they even have an interest? Do they want to learn control wiring? Or are they actually unable.
    A big fat no to all three in my companies situation, and obviously a handful of other companies represented here. Our installers don't go to classes after work or read any literature that pertains to the equipment either, it's just easier to dial 911, and then I get to do all of the control wiring for them that day no matter what else is going on for my schedule. I always thank them for giving me so much ot for the year!

  12. #38
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    maroon lazyboy
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    1,048
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger man View Post
    A big fat no to all three in my companies situation, and obviously a handful of other companies represented here. Our installers don't go to classes after work or read any literature that pertains to the equipment either, it's just easier to dial 911, and then I get to do all of the control wiring for them that day no matter what else is going on for my schedule. I always thank them for giving me so much ot for the year!
    I install some, they are missing out on the best part of the job.

    What is the point of doing all that tin work and gas and water piping if you can't make the thing go??????

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by knave View Post
    What is the point of doing all that tin work and gas and water piping if you can't make the thing go??????
    It's called a paycheck.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

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