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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I can't think of a co in my area that does not take the people that know almost "nothing" and makes them "installers."

    Even in commercial, I see units mounted in ceilings with the only access panel facing a wall, with 8" clearance. Or, up against a sprinkler pipe. Filters? You can pull them out 4", and the other 21"? Well, you just bend the crap out of the filter.

    Troglodytes.
    I have seen experienced service techs do the same thing. I had to crawl through a 10 ton unit mounted above the ceiling to change a belt. Because it was installed with an allthread hanger right in front of the access panel. Problem is my company installed unit and way under bidded job. Short cuts makes for headaches later on.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger man View Post
    I had a feeling we are in the minority. I prefer to work on controls and troubleshooting no heat, and no ac calls, which is generally what I do. I always believed that you cannot be called an installer if you leave the customers house without being able to make the unit run
    I am with you. They don't let me install much any more. Too old and slow. Nineteen years crawling around in attics, under houses and in places the human body was not meant to get back in. Has taken its toll. But, Who do they call when it doesn't cool or heat right.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    I have yet to meet an installer at my company that can do a job from start to finish including combustion test, explaining customer how to work stat we just installed, etc. They told a customer last week to just read the manual, then when I got there to verify operation two days later I got to show them how. How many techs on this site perform walkthroughs with the homeowner, on new installs, instead of the install supervisor.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Skokie , IL near chicago
    Posts
    1,129

    hey tiger man

    in my 40 years of field experience , almost every kind of refrigeration , h p steam , boilers , burners , and residential....there is a different mindset between install and service...almost every install person i've worked with loves their 8 hr. day , lock up the tools , stop for a quick beer & has no desire for the life we lead....most service people have a different motivation and thirst for knowledge and will attend the schools , etc on their own time to be the best in their business....most of the shops i've worked for had top quality guys(install) , paid them over scale to keep them and the jobs they put out could be in any textbook....but each was happy in their vocation & would never think of doing what most of us do.....:....Jack
    B[COLOR=a friend is one who knows us , but loves us anyway

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble time View Post
    I started in the trade over 30 years ago. I was hired because the installers they had were cutting joists in houses to install the duct work.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger93rsl View Post
    I worked for a company that would cut joist, but only after they had a carpenter come out and shore everything up before the joists where cut. Then after the ductwork was installed the carpenter would come back and tie all the supports back together. One customer tried to get out of paying bill, because someone told him that the roof would collapse. He changed his mind when the customer hired an engineer and was told that the way that it was done was stronger than it was before. When the old carpenter retired. Duct work had to go below ceiling if it would not fit in attic. Owner did not trust any one else to do it.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by rojacman View Post
    in my 40 years of field experience , almost every kind of refrigeration , h p steam , boilers , burners , and residential....there is a different mindset between install and service...almost every install person i've worked with loves their 8 hr. day , lock up the tools , stop for a quick beer & has no desire for the life we lead....most service people have a different motivation and thirst for knowledge and will attend the schools , etc on their own time to be the best in their business....most of the shops i've worked for had top quality guys(install) , paid them over scale to keep them and the jobs they put out could be in any textbook....but each was happy in their vocation & would never think of doing what most of us do.....:....Jack
    I don't care if they only work 8hours, and don't want to attend classes, because they can't comprehend what's being discussed, but a job is a job, as long as they are good enough to complete their job daily without constant callbacks then I would have great respect for these guys, otherwise you're just a wheelbarrow hauler. At least make sure the equipment runs when you leave at the bare minimum for gods sake so the homeowner don't call me that night after hours and I can't bill out my time!

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    maroon lazyboy
    Posts
    1,047

    hey

    I can't believe it... Seven years and not doing startups.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,108
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamas View Post
    My policy is you have to know who to install to service properly and you have to how service to install properly.
    This. Knowing ___ as well, will make you better at ___. The best don't limit themselves to one discipline and can do both proficiently and professionally.

    The problem I run into with some service techs is that there are whiny primadonnas that have no desire to be really good at installation because they perceive it to be "beneath them".
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    maroon lazyboy
    Posts
    1,047
    Quote Originally Posted by BergerMech Rob View Post
    Knowing ___ as well, will make you better at ___. The best don't limit themselves to one discipline and can do both proficiently and professionally.

    The problem I run into with some service techs is that there are whiny primadonnas that have no desire to be really good at installation because they perceive it to be "beneath them".
    Good Post.

    Our company keeps installation and service very separated. At least they let install do their own startups and charging.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    88
    At the company I work for the installers do the complete installation. Set gas pressures, low voltage wiring, static pressure testing, explain t-stat to the customer, combustion analysis, ect... If I owned a HVAC company, I wouldnt hire a service tech. if he couldnt install (neat, clean, proficent work). On the flip side, I wouldnt hire a installer if he has no service experience. They kinda go hand-in-hand in my opinion.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,236
    We do retail commercial.

    In the past four years, we have hung ONE air handler. One.

    RTU's? We do them all the time.

    Companies have us quote an install now and then, but we rarely get the bid. We have insurance, and we are all citizens. We pay our guys a real wage.

    Many, many times I go to a store for a PM, and find new split system equipment. The store manager tells me that ONE GUY spoke English.

    That's who gets the installs I see.

    So, we can't hire a guy based on his ability to install equipment. Our mandate is service. The freaky install work that I see...well, you get the picture.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    1,133
    Quote Originally Posted by BergerMech Rob View Post
    This. Knowing ___ as well, will make you better at ___. The best don't limit themselves to one discipline and can do both proficiently and professionally.

    The problem I run into with some service techs is that there are whiny primadonnas that have no desire to be really good at installation because they perceive it to be "beneath them".
    Gotta be able to do both, in order to understand what is going wrong.
    I can install to code, and bend metal to order. I was a sheet metal mechanic for a time at a large multinational company where the title sheet metal mechanic meant you were in charge of all the installers and were the interface with the GC and site foreman.

    Lot of prideful and blind folks on this site who seem to think, "Service techs are gods and all other folks in the field are dogs."

    I hate it, but I have done everything from change out transmission line transformers, to replace light bulbs, to running fiber optic cable 6'+ underground, to set and calibrate 14' shears capable of cutting to 1/64" of an inch to HVAC/R work, service, installs, and anything else that needs to be done.

    Every facet of a trade has it skill set and mastery. A master sheet metal worker would run circles around any service tech who knows how to install to code. Just as two of the members I know here in RL, are gurus of HVAC/R knowledge, so are a few of the installers you all seem quick to spit upon.

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