Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: 410a and 22R

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    35
    I'm getting a 13 seer 2 1/2 ton Trane AC. I've had 2 quotes so far and 2 completly different views on the refrig issue. While I know 22r is being phased out eventually, dealer 1 told me to definetly go for the 410a because 22r prices will skyrocket someday and/or become hard to obtain. Dealer 2 told me that he's seen a bunch of the AC units that use 410a (brand doesn't matter) lose the 410a coolant in only a few years....he mentioned the pressure is somewhere in the 400lbs to 500lbs (per sq in I think) vs pressure of 65-175 for the 22r units....I may be a little off on the exact pressure, but it was a substantial difference. The bottom line is he thought the design of the 410a's just aren't perfected to hold the coolant properly at this point in the game.

    Any truth to this? Would like to hear views on the 22r vs 410a on the issue of system design and future coolant availability/price.

    I can say from my own experience, I have an 18+ 2 ton Trane AC that runs 22r and have never had to fill/top it off....still cools the house nicely.

  2. #2
    gto boy Guest
    If you can change lines go 410a,at least there is not a Phase out date on that like r-22.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,152
    Originally posted by stevekeys
    Any truth to this?
    No. The contractor is just unwillingly to change with the times.

    http://www.410a.com/myths/index.html

    BTW...if the 18+ Trane 2 ton cools just fine, why are you buying a 2.5 ton unit?
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    35
    The 2 ton was in the house from the builder(a builder 2 ton special I guess to keep his costs down . When we had the home inspector check the house before buying, he mentioned it was to small for the house (2000 sq ft)....same with one of the dealers giving us a quote. In our area (upstate NY), our summers aren't to bad for the most part and it cools fine to 75...except when temp is about 91+, and then it can't keep it at 75...it works hard to keep 76 or 77. So I guess I should say the air out of the vent is nice and cold, but apparently there's not enough tonage behind it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    35
    The URL above explaining the good side of 410a I noticed is from Honeywell, who I assume manufacturers 410a? From my view, that's kind of like asking Ford who makes the best pickup
    Even if they make R22 also, I always question the views from a manufacturer when the almighty $ is involved.

    I must say I've been finding arguments on both sides on various web groups and I have to say both sides make good point!

  6. #6
    you have to remember a lot of companies especially residential companys do not like change, they like simple.
    in 2006 most all air conditioners manufactured will be r410 a. the company quoting r410a is more than likely a better contractor also.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,152

    Hmm

    R-410a is a refrigerant. Big, dang deal. Contractor has his head in the sand. He'll be in the hurt locker next year. I've seen just as many R-22 leaks. Whether it's 200 psig or 350 psig, the charge will dump if the leak is large enough.

    As for cost and availability, have you ever taken an economics class? Do a Google search on Law of Supply and Demand. If the government limits production of R-22 and we have to pay to recycle existing R-22, it stands to reason that the cost of R-22 will rise significantly.

    On the reliability aspect, Carrier has been using R-410a in their units since 1996. It hasn't been an issue. Trane introduced R-410a units in 2001. Again, it was a non-issue.

    I personally don't give a rat's behind which type of refrigerant you buy. It'll be your pocketbook that empties quickly in 2015 to fix that R-22 leak.

    Home inspectors sizing equipment these days in NY? Your unit SHOULD struggle above 91°F. Your summer design is 88 or 89 (just a SWAG...Louisville's design is 90°F). Any time you are above design, your unit should struggle.

    I recommend that you find a contractor with the ability to conduct a heat loss/heat gain calculation. Also, one that doesn't bad mouth something that he doesn't sell.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    35
    Dealer 1 and 2 that I mentioned in my original post were both Trane authorized dealers(and both were Trane Comfort Specialist certified, if that really means much). I can't say I trust either one, just trying to get some experience from other pros on the board from 2 completely opposite views. One says go with 410a, phase out eventually, higher prices down the road, etc....and the other says 22r is more proven, less pressure is used, less parts/things to break....also dealer 2 said 410a is more than a few $ more than the comparable 22r for the same seer.

    By the way (not to open another issue here), but the dealer that likes the 410a also never mentioned or gave me an option to install a 2 stage stat with my XV90.....just was happy for me to stay with my current 1 stat.....22r guy says 2 stage, variable speed furnace needs a 2 stat for best performance, period. 410a guy says electrostatic filter (wash once a month) is the way to go.....22R guy says replaceable media way to go, electrostatic to restrictive, especially after it's used for a period even with the month cleanings for you can never really clean them completely. Just thought I'd mention this to show another big difference in opinions on 2 Trane dealers.

    Thanks again for all the replies!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    4,413
    Originally posted by stevekeys
    While I know 22r is being phased out eventually, dealer 1 told me to definetly go for the 410a because 22r prices will skyrocket someday and/or become hard to obtain. Dealer 2 told me that he's seen a bunch of the AC units that use 410a (brand doesn't matter) lose the 410a coolant in only a few years.... The bottom line is he thought the design of the 410a's just aren't perfected to hold the coolant properly at this point in the game.
    Prices of R22 will go up, but there is already a replacement available. R22 is in the moment a lot cheaper than R410a and I do not expect prices of R410a to go down to the level of R22. Refrigerant loss is not more common with R410a.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    4,413
    Originally posted by stevekeys
    One says go with 410a, phase out eventually, higher prices down the road, etc....and the other says 22r is more proven, less pressure is used, less parts/things to break....
    R410a units will outlast R22 units, R410a uses a different oil, that will make the compressors last longer.
    Originally posted by stevekeys

    also dealer 2 said 410a is more than a few $ more than the comparable 22r for the same seer.
    A true statement.
    Originally posted by stevekeys

    410a guy says electrostatic filter (wash once a month) is the way to go.....22R guy says replaceable media way to go, electrostatic to restrictive, especially after it's used for a period even with the month cleanings for you can never really clean them completely.
    I have to go with the 22R guy, a large MERV 11 filter will give you a very good filtration and you will have less maintenance.
    The best argument today is for the R410a is that it is better for the environment.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event