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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    11,808
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by dash
    Originally posted by RoBoTeq

    Like I have been stating; "no air in, no air out."



    Where did you state that,not that it's correct?

    I thought you said,

    "The return air portion of an HVAC ducting system does not "pull" or "suck" air...it allows the higher pressure of air introduced into an area to "return" to the units blower."

    which is saying the supply air pressure "pushes" the air back to the blower,which you have said before.


    The higher pressure air in the supply duct,after entering the room ,doesn't have anywhere near the ASP to push or return the air back to the blower.
    Supply air to a room will pressurize the room. A return from the room provides a path back. Central return and relying on transfers out of rooms CAN get enough air into the room which CAN displace air out of the room.

    Will displace through the transfer method, could displace out of the conditioned space as well.

    The area adjacent to the central return will be a localized negative area, air will take the least path to get there. Technically it is a PD pushing air to the return.

    Air into the central return can come through the ceiling from the attic, come from the hall way, wherever it is easiest.

    Best system is returns from all areas but bathrooms and kitchens etc.
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,852
    Ya know whats missing from this thread? The Equaliz-Air!
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    6,247
    Originally posted by Carnak


    Best system is returns from all areas but bathrooms and kitchens etc.

    Absolutely, it is also a good idea to balance the supply airflow & return airflow to keep room pressures neutral.
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  4. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    11,808
    X is right about air going from 'positive' to 'negative'.

    Think of a well pump, straight suction lift, be the biggest pump in the world and it is going to be limited to under 34 ft of lift, 25 is doing good.

    Drill a 200 ft deep well and drop the pump down there and it will push water all the way up and build up pressure in a tank.
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,957
    Why does a guy ask a question (geob) and never return to the thread to indicate he has received the answers?
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Originally posted by trane
    There is no point Dash. I don't think Robo will change his mind. When questioned about a post I would think it would be wise to answer and backup your thoughts.

    Can you explain what that means??

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Originally posted by Carnak
    X is right about air going from 'positive' to 'negative'.

    Think of a well pump, straight suction lift, be the biggest pump in the world and it is going to be limited to under 34 ft of lift, 25 is doing good.

    Drill a 200 ft deep well and drop the pump down there and it will push water all the way up and build up pressure in a tank.

    There's more weight involveds with water,think about it.



    Why do exhaust fans work,why are you all afraid of correcting Robo,he's clearly wrong in this post,are you all afraid????

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
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    6,247
    Originally posted by dash

    Why do exhaust fans work,why are you all afraid of correcting Robo,he's clearly wrong in this post,are you all afraid????
    Fans are a constant volume machine for every CFM out there must be the same amount of CFM going in.

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  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
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    Originally posted by dash
    Originally posted by trane
    There is no point Dash. I don't think Robo will change his mind. When questioned about a post I would think it would be wise to answer and backup your thoughts.

    Can you explain what that means??
    Yeah I can explain. Robo will never admit he is wrong although it is clear to us. Instead of backing up his posts he continues to sidestep the questions asked of him. I actually started a new thread about this in the pro section but lost my connection for some reason and had to restart and didn't have the time to retype it all. I respect everyone on this site including Robo but find it strange that he can not admit a mistake.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Originally posted by dash
    Originally posted by Carnak
    X is right about air going from 'positive' to 'negative'.

    Think of a well pump, straight suction lift, be the biggest pump in the world and it is going to be limited to under 34 ft of lift, 25 is doing good.

    Drill a 200 ft deep well and drop the pump down there and it will push water all the way up and build up pressure in a tank.

    There's more weight involveds with water,think about it.



    Why do exhaust fans work,why are you all afraid of correcting Robo,he's clearly wrong in this post,are you all afraid????
    Contrary to popular belief you cannot suck a golf ball through a garden hose but you could most likely blow it through.

    Pumps, vacuum cleaners, exhaust fans are all limited on how much suction they can create. This maximum suction is ultimately a perfect vacuum although none of these will do this. When you have a perfect vaccum and then break it, atmospheric pressure pushes the air inside.

    The well pump can only suction lift as high as atmospheric pressure will push it. If you had a one inch by one inch column of water 33 ft and change high, it would weigh about 14.7 pounds and since this weight is pushing down on a square inch the pressure you could measure with a gauge would read 14.7 pounds per square inch. You can drop a pump down the well and it can push as high as the impellor and the horsepower will allow.

    The first barometer was a big tube, closed on one end, filled with water and then quickly flipped upside down into a bucket. The water was 33 feet and so many inches high maybe it was 33.9 feet. It did not spill out, atmospheric pressure was pushing it up.

    So when you have an inlet into the fan, it creates a lower pressure than atmospheric, and the atmosspheric pressure pushes the air into the fan.

    You seem to have a vendetta against robo,I do not fear robo nor you.

    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    We have a duct system designed with an equal amount of TEL on the supply and return,we add them together and divide the ASP by that number,to get a friction rate .


    We use the friction to size the supply and return,and since the TEL was the same ,in this case ,the ESP will be the same for supply and return.


    Both supply and return ,will move the same amount of air ,have the same FR,at the same ESP,though one is positive and one is negative.


  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Originally posted by Carnak
    Originally posted by dash
    Originally posted by Carnak
    X is right about air going from 'positive' to 'negative'.

    Think of a well pump, straight suction lift, be the biggest pump in the world and it is going to be limited to under 34 ft of lift, 25 is doing good.

    Drill a 200 ft deep well and drop the pump down there and it will push water all the way up and build up pressure in a tank.

    There's more weight involveds with water,think about it.



    Why do exhaust fans work,why are you all afraid of correcting Robo,he's clearly wrong in this post,are you all afraid????
    Contrary to popular belief you cannot suck a golf ball through a garden hose but you could most likely blow it through.

    Pumps, vacuum cleaners, exhaust fans are all limited on how much suction they can create. This maximum suction is ultimately a perfect vacuum although none of these will do this. When you have a perfect vaccum and then break it, atmospheric pressure pushes the air inside.

    The well pump can only suction lift as high as atmospheric pressure will push it. If you had a one inch by one inch column of water 33 ft and change high, it would weigh about 14.7 pounds and since this weight is pushing down on a square inch the pressure you could measure with a gauge would read 14.7 pounds per square inch. You can drop a pump down the well and it can push as high as the impellor and the horsepower will allow.

    The first barometer was a big tube, closed on one end, filled with water and then quickly flipped upside down into a bucket. The water was 33 feet and so many inches high maybe it was 33.9 feet. It did not spill out, atmospheric pressure was pushing it up.

    So when you have an inlet into the fan, it creates a lower pressure than atmospheric, and the atmosspheric pressure pushes the air into the fan.

    You seem to have a vendetta against robo,I do not fear robo nor you.


    Though this is not the case here,does the pump suck or pull ??

    Or does atmospheric pressure push or allow the water to get get from the well to the inlet of the pump as Robo,would claim.


    You aren't even addressing the issue,just defending your buddy, by trying to change and confuse the issue,just as he constantly does.


  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,852
    Carnak has not only had the oportunity to tell me "where to go", but knows that I did exactly what he told me

    And if anyone could see us side by side they would laugh at the prospect of Carnak fearing me.

    It is not fear that causes people to be able to agree or disagree within reason, it is respect. Some on this forum do not have respect for others. Anyone who makes the very false accusation that I will not admit being wrong has simply not read enough of my posts.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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