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Thread: Monster removal

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    the Great Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    607
    Originally posted by amickracing
    Better air flow, less restriction, hopefully less turbulance thus a better straighter line through the filter causing better filtration.

    Oh, and they look cool too :-)
    Better check out Manual D, or read following:

    Originally posted by neophytes serendipity
    Radius heel elbows at the equipment on the return side do absoluteley nothing for airflow. Equivalent length is exactly the same as a square throat / square heel combo. H/W=1 then that is 45 feet of duct. H/W=2 then that is 30 feet of duct. H= opening at furnace, W= narrow width of drop.

    Radius throat ells show little benefit until the throat is 1/2 the diameter of the drop (H/W).

    Correctly installed turning vanes are equivalent to 10 feet of duct- same as a radius ratio of 1:1.

    Reference velocity of 700 fpm @ .08" WG per 100' of duct. ACCA Manual D page A3-14.

    Might as well use square throat / square heel. Cheaper and faster to make than a radius heel.

    Or do it right with turning vanes.

    You will find that the bottom 1/3 of the filter will get loaded faster on a sysyem without vanes or the proper radius throat because all the air is going there. Filter restriction ratings are based on using the whole filter, not just part of it.

    Nice install otherwise.

    [Edited by neophytes serendipity on 11-25-2005 at 09:19 AM]

    That was my point these elbows ONLY LOOK good they are no better than square throat and heel elbows as stated by N.S. my hope is to encourage better understanding and function. An excellent example of where understanding this particular sheet metal application's shortcomings is where a DX coil is located right after one of these elbows, you will find that you will have the symptoms of low air flow for the refrigeration system but measuring the flow will show the proper amount.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    EL = equivalent length
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,866
    I know where there are 4 right now a working well.

  4. #17
    Air-Ease huh? That furnace looks a lot like an Armstrong to me, are they made by the same manuf?

    I'm assuming there is a trap in that evap drain line and the homeowner must have uncapped the cleanout just to take a peek!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,179
    Yup, Armstrong & Air Ease are identical products.

    We don't trap positive pressure drains. Often put a tee in for easier flushing and usually don't cap them in a basement.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    7,415
    Anyone else feel the need to point out my missassumptions? I really think the 3rd time is the charm lol.

    Anywho... I apologize to everyone who has read my post for my misunderstanding of certain areas of duct design... but that's why I'm here, to learn more

    And I'm sure many have read my post and thought the same but hopefully will be corrected by reading the rest.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    There are lots of people out there with those and other assumptions.

    The smart ones learn a better way.

    Learning is good.
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bartlett, IL
    Posts
    6,619
    I should paste Mr Ruskins' theory on all my proposals....

  9. #22
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    We don't trap positive pressure drains. Often put a tee in for easier flushing and usually don't cap them in a basement.
    Now don't I feel like a doodee-head. *humbled* What is a positive pressure drain?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    677
    We are required to use radius heel R A boots by code. I agree they do look cool even if the numbers show that they are more restictive.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Richmond
    Posts
    480
    Originally posted by ryan_the_furnace_guy
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    We don't trap positive pressure drains. Often put a tee in for easier flushing and usually don't cap them in a basement.
    Now don't I feel like a doodee-head. *humbled* What is a positive pressure drain?
    Positive pressure drain is a drain line from an A/C coil that is blown through. That is, the furnace is below the coil and in an upflow configuration

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    Originally posted by wally01
    We are required to use radius heel R A boots by code. I agree they do look cool even if the numbers show that they are more restictive.
    Anyone shown the inspector the Manual D book?
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ypsilanti, Mi
    Posts
    13
    Better you than me!

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