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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,652
    I'm curious. What was the reason for steering away from Rheem? I don't deal with them much, but they seem like a solid piece of equipment. Who advised you against them? Carrier has the same 10 year online parts warranty registration thing.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,763
    Quote Originally Posted by hokies416 View Post
    9.5
    9.5/13 = 1.36.

    36% less efficient seem a lot or a little? Guess you could take projected heating and cooling costs over the next 15-20 years and determine what cheaper equipment costs and what it saves.

    I like doing cash flow analysis at this point. Subtract your monthly cost of incremental capital for better equipment from energy savings. Then you have a net monthly cost (or savings) number for making your decision.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    i would go with the rheem just make sure they install it on pump ups
    what are pump ups?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,909
    HSPF doesn't include aux heat use - you may not save as much as you think.
    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    i would go with the rheem just make sure they install it on pump ups
    never mind....just googled and learned something.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,763
    For others wondering, they keep the pump up out of the snow;






    Quote Originally Posted by amd View Post
    HSPF doesn't include aux heat use - you may not save as much as you think.
    Good point. Or you might save a whole lot more if it keeps you out of aux...

    At what point does the pump you are looking at start losing capacity?

    Greenspeed output tends to remain higher longer... That 36% savings might be a lot higher.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    I'm curious. What was the reason for steering away from Rheem? I don't deal with them much, but they seem like a solid piece of equipment. Who advised you against them? Carrier has the same 10 year online parts warranty registration thing.
    two of the local contractors seemed to come across as having atitudes about Rheem equipment. I know the local (I'm in small town USA) Rheem contractor has a nice reputation for service, several friends & co-workers like them.

    Hence the question on here RE Rheem....ie any substance to the knock on Rheem equipment amongst HVAC knowledges like yourselves?

    My exploration of on-line heat pump reviews didn't seem to surface any 'Rheem negativity'.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    9.5/13 = 1.36.

    36% less efficient seem a lot or a little? Guess you could take projected heating and cooling costs over the next 15-20 years and determine what cheaper equipment costs and what it saves.

    I like doing cash flow analysis at this point. Subtract your monthly cost of incremental capital for better equipment from energy savings. Then you have a net monthly cost (or savings) number for making your decision.
    why the use of 13 as the denominator?

    Talk slow.....I'm not an HVAC pro....just a homeowner trying to make a more informed decision on an item that I *AM* going to replace. I'm not one to wait till it dies on a cold-azz winter day when it then could be a crisis. I paid $5K for the entire system, 2 11.5 SEER Lennox heat pumps, 2 air handlers, 2 programmable thermostats, and ductwork back in 1995. I've very much got my $$$'s worth.

    13/9.5 = 1.37 but 9.5/13 does not = 1.36 .... I get a .73 ..... but again why am I even looking at 13 as *either* the numerator OR denominator?

    The SEER/HSPF choices at the moment are 15/8 or 15.5/9.5.

    Sorry for my ignorance......I'm missing your point.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    1,133
    Long as it is a HP, AC or gas furnace, Rheem/Rudd makes fine equipment in my experience. I personally will not sell a Rheem oil furnace.
    Installation makes much more of a difference than the name on the equipment, as does the load calculation and design. As long as you are comparing apples to apples, then installation and design are usually the highest priority, not equipment.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Twilly prefers the Rheem, Twilly Top Rheem contractor.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Denver, PA
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by hokies416 View Post
    why the use of 13 as the denominator?

    Talk slow.....I'm not an HVAC pro....just a homeowner trying to make a more informed decision on an item that I *AM* going to replace. I'm not one to wait till it dies on a cold-azz winter day when it then could be a crisis. I paid $5K for the entire system, 2 11.5 SEER Lennox heat pumps, 2 air handlers, 2 programmable thermostats, and ductwork back in 1995. I've very much got my $$$'s worth.

    13/9.5 = 1.37 but 9.5/13 does not = 1.36 .... I get a .73 ..... but again why am I even looking at 13 as *either* the numerator OR denominator?

    The SEER/HSPF choices at the moment are 15/8 or 15.5/9.5.

    Sorry for my ignorance......I'm missing your point.
    They are talking about the New Infinity Heat Pump from Carrier that has an HSPF of 13 not talking about your systems.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    You might also want to compare heating capacities at lower temps as much as comparing HSPF. The COP and heating capacity at 17F can tell you more about what actual heating costs will be than HSPF... which includes operation at warmer temperatures.... sort of like how EPA MPG estimates include ideal driving conditions for much of the rating.

    Just as a auto mfg can program and set-up the gearing on theri cars to optimzie the EPA MPG ratings, vs. real word performance and driving.... HVAC MFG's can optimize their compressor operation profiles and such to get the best SEER or HSPF ratings but give up sometimes capacity, or effeciency at the extremes.

    The system that runs aux heat the least, and has on demand defrost, will be the cheapest to operate. Having advanced controls to lock out the auxillary above a certain outdoor temperature cna help a lot. Again, so will a unit that provide ht egreatest heat output at the lower rated temperature.


    Another anaology. If I towed a heavy trailer msot of the time or carried heavy payloads regularly, I might want to choose a V8 (or turbocharged V6) for my pick-up rather than the base V6 which might have higher fuel ecnomy ratings. Why? The V8 under the conditons I'm going to use it the most will actually get better fuel economy as well as give better performance when needed.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    You might also want to compare heating capacities at lower temps as much as comparing HSPF. The COP and heating capacity at 17F can tell you more about what actual heating costs will be than HSPF... which includes operation at warmer temperatures.... sort of like how EPA MPG estimates include ideal driving conditions for much of the rating.

    Just as a auto mfg can program and set-up the gearing on theri cars to optimzie the EPA MPG ratings, vs. real word performance and driving.... HVAC MFG's can optimize their compressor operation profiles and such to get the best SEER or HSPF ratings but give up sometimes capacity, or effeciency at the extremes.

    The system that runs aux heat the least, and has on demand defrost, will be the cheapest to operate. Having advanced controls to lock out the auxillary above a certain outdoor temperature cna help a lot. Again, so will a unit that provide ht egreatest heat output at the lower rated temperature.


    Another anaology. If I towed a heavy trailer msot of the time or carried heavy payloads regularly, I might want to choose a V8 (or turbocharged V6) for my pick-up rather than the base V6 which might have higher fuel ecnomy ratings. Why? The V8 under the conditons I'm going to use it the most will actually get better fuel economy as well as give better performance when needed.

    I was going to ask about the aux heat that a few mentioned prior to your post. Is this the electric supplemental heat strips, or some other concept?

    We're in a fairly temperate SW Virginia. While we *DO* get snow, and in fact have had some relatively nasty winters.....that's more the exception than the rule locally. Our winters are typically not horrible. Especially not frigid cold horrible.

    RE the mention of 'pump ups'......are they also called risers? One & the same?

    This has been a wonderfully educational delve...and I sincerely thank all who have taken the time to offer up your thoughts & expertise. I offer up a virtual icy cold beverage to you all for being so kind!!!

    The Rheem system offered includes a variable speed air handler, and a 1.5 ton, 15.5 SEER, 9.5 HSPF HP that, after the Rheem $600 rebate and tax credit, makes it my choice to repalce my 16+ yr old 11.5 Lennox.

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