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  1. #40
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    AS A NEUTRAL OBSERVER, it seems the h/o has been doing a lot of work on these units. from his post, the fan on the fan motor fell off. h/o took top off condenser off,and put the fan back on the motor,by himself, w/o possible realizing the fan, by falling off the fan motor, may have damaged the condenser coil. the h/o then starts up condenser. it's possible that when the inside coil above the furnace,became frozen, after fan fell off cond. fan motor, that the frozen ice on evap coil could have fell off as a chunk of ice and cracked the pan, i've seen this happen.this coud explain the leaks coming from the coil on top of the furnace, imo, i can't figure out why another hvac guy wasn't called, instead of letting the unit run for three months leaking water like it has, something doesn't add up here.it seems that this whole ball got rolling when the fan motor fell off the fan motor, and was repaired by the h/o, who isn't a trained hvac tech, and this could have set this whole disaster in motion! just a observation! i mean how many contracters like a home owner repairing there own equipment as well as adjusting wiring inside a furnace, this is an interesting post.

  2. #41
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    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    2,361
    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    AS A NEUTRAL OBSERVER, it seems the h/o has been doing a lot of work on these units. from his post In desperation and frustration., the fan on the fan motor fell off. h/o took top off condenser off,and put the fan back on the motor,by himself, w/o possible realizing the fan, by falling off the fan motor, may have damaged the condenser coil. the h/o then starts up condenser. The installing contractor chose not to come out. it's possible that when the inside coil above the furnace,became frozen, after fan fell off cond. fan motor, that the frozen ice on evap coil could have fell off as a chunk of ice and cracked the pan, Could be. It was iced up fpr about 36 hours before the OP fixed the OK fan. i've seen this happen.this coud explain the leaks coming from the coil on top of the furnace, imo, i can't figure out why another hvac guy wasn't called Having another company out would provide the installing contractor a great opportunity to escape from his warranty obligations. , instead of letting the unit run for three months leaking water like it has, something doesn't add up here.it seems that this whole ball got rolling when the fan motor fell off the fan motor, and was repaired by the h/o, who isn't a trained hvac tech, and this could have set this whole disaster in motion! Sorry but the icing preceded the repair by 36 hours or so. just a observation! i mean how many contracters like a home owner repairing there own equipment as well as adjusting wiring inside a furnace, this is an interesting post.
    Also, shame on the homeowner for soaking up the water with towelling to protect his house. Yes, let's blame the victim for refusing to wait and for not shooting the installing contractor when he did show up.

    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    ... Came home Wed from work, house was HOT!! Ice on indoor & outdoor coil Piping, rather than coil? . Noticed that the outdoor condenser was 'on', but no hot air coming out. Called contractor..no answer as usual. Slept through the night in a hot house with a brand new system that doesn't work.

    - Next Thur evening after work, contractor finally calls back and walks me thru troubleshooting over the phone Instead of coming out to find and correct the problem. . Realized the fan had come off outdoor condenser. Without contractor, I ended up taking the cover off condenser and re-attaching the fan blade myself. Sounds as though the contactor wanted the OP to fix it himself. Bingo it worked!

    - Still Thursday evening, as soon as unit comes back on, water drains both in the basement and out the pipe 50/50 drainage! (but I assumed that was normal since indoor coiled had iced up and is now thawing). Thursday night finally have a cold house again.

    - Friday morning, house still cold. Yay!

    - Friday evening, come home from work, house hot again. This time indoor coil and outdoor copper piping are all frozen solid. Call & text the contractor no answer (as usual). I power down the whole system to let it thaw. Water drains both in the basement and out the pipe. still half on the floor and half out the pipe.

    - Still call & text contractor, but contractor giving me excuses on why he can't make it. So for the next 5 days while waiting for the contractor to come, everyday (sometimes twice a day depending on how hot/humid it is outside), I have to power the system down for about 2 hours for it to thaw and drain, and then I can power it back up for it to cool the house. ....

    - So now we're almost two weeks into a new system, and I have to continuously thaw the unit just to get air. (Mind you, my wife and son are now sleeping in the basement where it's less hot. Next to this loud ass system). Contractor finally comes, to troubleshoot. He checks the freon level and said it's fine. His solution is to add more freon After saying the freon level was "fine"., change the thermostat (from one digital controller to another), and to add another small white elbow drain pipe next to the condensate drain that you saw in the pics. (Note: before this, there was only one pipe, now there are two)

    - He leaves that evening, and everything worked fine for about 24hours. Now the system is back to icing up. So I go back to my ritual of power up/down the system. Water is now leaking more in the house than it is out the drain. Instead of 50/50 it's now 70/30. I have to wait another week for contractor to return.

    - When contractor returns, he does a leak test outside and discovers that some of the coils have been damaged when the fan fell off 3 weeks prior. He breaks out his soldering gun and repairs the damaged coils. Without recovering the rest of the refrigerant uses a soldering GUN? How about evacuation and recharging by weight? Oh yeah, beer can cold. He tests the system and leaves. Finally a cold house again....
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  3. #42
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    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by lynn comstock View Post
    Also, shame on the homeowner for soaking up the water with towelling to protect his house. Yes, let's blame the victim for refusing to wait and for not shooting the installing contractor when he did show up.
    last comment on this thread, there is no way, and i mean no way,would i run a system furnace/a-coil, that was obviously leaking water from the a-coil above the furnace, the fact that the water seems to be pouring out of the coil above the furnace is a RED flag, i would have called another hvac contractor, after informing oringinal contractor, what my options were. but to run a systems leaking water all over a furnace inside and out with a obvious crack in coil pan, for 3 MONTHS!hey what ever. but to any one in a similar situation, and you have a leaky coil above your furnace, i'd suggest shutting it off and call a differant contractor, running a unit with a obvious leak,and which is obviously going to ruin a furnace isn't a good option, but hey, what ever!

  4. #43
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    last comment on this thread, there is no way, and i mean no way,would i run a system furnace/a-coil, that was obviously leaking water from the a-coil above the furnace, the fact that the water seems to be pouring out of the coil above the furnace is a RED flag, i would have called another hvac contractor, after informing oringinal contractor, what my options were. but to run a systems leaking water all over a furnace inside and out with a obvious crack in coil pan, for 3 MONTHS!hey what ever. but to any one in a similar situation, and you have a leaky coil above your furnace, i'd suggest shutting it off and call a differant contractor, running a unit with a obvious leak,and which is obviously going to ruin a furnace isn't a good option, but hey, what ever!
    I'm somewhat inclined to think this way as well. I am also wondering if there really is an hvac company involved with this. If I pay a company to do a job and that job is done wrong with the wrong materials and I am uncomfortable because of it, that company better be fixing their problem in a reasonable time period or that company is getting reported to whoever I can report them to. Hell, I just did just that over the oil boiler in the house I just bought because the home warranty company sent out some lying, excuse making hack who left me without heat.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    As the homeowner, here's some backstory as to why I did what I did:

    This being my first home and proud of it.. 12 years ago got married in May and my wife and I moved in the next month. Love our house. While I'm no real professional by far, I consider myself a pretty good do-it-your selfer. Basically, I attempt to do my own repairs by reading handyman books and getting info from google and youtube. I've installed my own diswasher, washer, dryer, garabage disposal, etc., I've installed a toilet, sink, lighting, and mirror in a bathroom (mind you, it was already roughed-in ;-)) When it comes to the heat and air, I know about many of the parts because my old comfortmaker that held on for these last 12 years needed parts every so often. Some things I 'd call in for service, other things I'd do myself. On my old comfortmaker I replaced the inducer fan, the run capacitor, the ignition timer, and cleaned the blower fan. Over the years, I've spent a little bit of money servicing the heating & air system. I probably could've saved more had I had service contract, but that would've taken all of the fun out of being my own handyman.

    When my old comfortmaker was basically on it's last leg, I would've purchase my own system, had it delivered and done it myself, but my wife said HELL NO, lol. That's when I put the job out for bid. At first I was just going to go with Joe Shmo who was the cheapest, but again my wife said HELL NO. She told me about two stories she heard on the news where the house totally blew up because they used unlicensed contractors. For the peace-of-mind and safety of both my wife and son I decided to stop being cheap and go for a good middle-of-the-road licensed contractor.


    Because our financial situation has drastically changed due to this danged recession, we scraped together money that we really didn't have and decided to do it right and live in peace. Especially knowing that we'd have a good 10 year warranty.

    Fast-forward in time....when my new system started to give me all these problems such as leaking all over the place, I was hopeful that the contractor would come and do the right thing. Honestly, this guy is a really good guy. But his business skills suck!!!! And truthfully, I didn't call another contractor because I didn't have the money, which made it even more frustrating. I was reduced to soaking up water with towels while waiting for help to come. Plus, at this point I had already grown distrusting of contractors. Just like when I had the Comfortmaker, they'd charge $85 just to show up at the door, hit me with another $100-$200 on top of the $85 for something I could've done my damn self.

    That's why I jumped on this board. To find out what my options were. I know I'm going to have to spend money, but I also wanted to present my problems to other professionals to see what you guys think. If I know that I'll eventually get money back in a lawsuit, I can hit family and friends up knowing that I'll get it back later. I'm just at my wits end.

    Make sense?

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
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    25
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Assuming that everything stated on this thread is accurate, I have to go along with having that system removed and a properly sized system installed. As for whether or not you will ever see a refund is moot to whether or not that system will ever perform properly.

    You are going to have even worse headaches with the heating system.

    Give the contractor notice to replace the system with properly sized equipment that actually works or to refund all money paid. If the contractor does not comply, take as much action with the MD authorities, BBB, and any other agency that will listen to you.

    My offer to arbitrate with the contractor still stands.
    I'm definitely going to consider this. What do I need to do?

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    568

    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    As the homeowner, here's some backstory as to why I did what I did:

    This being my first home and proud of it.. 12 years ago got married in May and my wife and I moved in the next month. Love our house. While I'm no real professional by far, I consider myself a pretty good do-it-your selfer. Basically, I attempt to do my own repairs by reading handyman books and getting info from google and youtube. I've installed my own diswasher, washer, dryer, garabage disposal, etc., I've installed a toilet, sink, lighting, and mirror in a bathroom (mind you, it was already roughed-in ;-)) When it comes to the heat and air, I know about many of the parts because my old comfortmaker that held on for these last 12 years needed parts every so often. Some things I 'd call in for service, other things I'd do myself. On my old comfortmaker I replaced the inducer fan, the run capacitor, the ignition timer, and cleaned the blower fan. Over the years, I've spent a little bit of money servicing the heating & air system. I probably could've saved more had I had service contract, but that would've taken all of the fun out of being my own handyman.

    When my old comfortmaker was basically on it's last leg, I would've purchase my own system, had it delivered and done it myself, but my wife said HELL NO, lol. That's when I put the job out for bid. At first I was just going to go with Joe Shmo who was the cheapest, but again my wife said HELL NO. She told me about two stories she heard on the news where the house totally blew up because they used unlicensed contractors. For the peace-of-mind and safety of both my wife and son I decided to stop being cheap and go for a good middle-of-the-road licensed contractor.


    Because our financial situation has drastically changed due to this danged recession, we scraped together money that we really didn't have and decided to do it right and live in peace. Especially knowing that we'd have a good 10 year warranty.

    Fast-forward in time....when my new system started to give me all these problems such as leaking all over the place, I didn't call another contractor because I didn't want to spend money that I didn't have. Plus, at this point I had already grown distrusting of contractors. Just like before, it's $85 just to show up and they may or may not have a solution. That's why I jumped on this board. To find out what my options were.

    Make sense?
    hey wire, this is JMHO, when that fan fell off the cond. motor, that seemed to put this whole shabang into motion. it's obvious when the fan fell off, and the comp. kept running, that's what froze the inside unit, you most likely got iced up, inside the coil, when it started to thaw, a hunk of ice fell off, and probably cracked the pan, which is most likely why you'VE been leaking water for 3 MONTHS! the problem with a home owner fixing his own equipment is real simple, do to inexpierience, you're unable to look at the whole system and figure out the cause and effect, bottom line a hvac guy after seeing the fan fall off the cond. motor, would have looked at 3 things, did that impact any wires? did that damage the cond. coil? and did it freeze the inside coil, which it did, when you have a block of ice inside a coil, it's been known to fall off and possibly crack pan, which most likely is why your unit is leaking.sp now you have a unit that's been leaking for 3 months on your furnace inside/out along with your floor. to me this is puzzling, i don't get this whole episode! me personaly, when i saw the the fan off the fan motor, sitting in the condenser coil area probably om top of the compresser, i would have had the guy over right away! at this point, it seems you'll have a he said/she said going on with the contractor, you saying he didn't come and him saying you tampered with the unit causing this snow balling effect. this is a interesting story. finally i'm not taking sides, this has never happened to me, so i don't know what to say. good luck! let us know the outcome!

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,110
    The water problem might be a simple fixed based on the placement of the fan. Watch this video. It explains how minor pipe problems based on fan position can cause the water to be sucked back into the unit instead of gravity allowing it to flow to a drain. If you have a water pump since it is in the basement they may have installed the pipe backwards. Watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKsV1SOSPVc&NR=1
    If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
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    25
    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    hey wire, this is JMHO, when that fan fell off the cond. motor, that seemed to put this whole shabang into motion. it's obvious when the fan fell off, and the comp. kept running, that's what froze the inside unit, you most likely got iced up, inside the coil, when it started to thaw, a hunk of ice fell off, and probably cracked the pan, which is most likely why you'VE been leaking water for 3 MONTHS! the problem with a home owner fixing his own equipment is real simple, do to inexpierience, you're unable to look at the whole system and figure out the cause and effect, bottom line a hvac guy after seeing the fan fall off the cond. motor, would have looked at 3 things, did that impact any wires? did that damage the cond. coil? and did it freeze the inside coil, which it did, when you have a block of ice inside a coil, it's been known to fall off and possibly crack pan, which most likely is why your unit is leaking.sp now you have a unit that's been leaking for 3 months on your furnace inside/out along with your floor. to me this is puzzling, i don't get this whole episode! me personaly, when i saw the the fan off the fan motor, sitting in the condenser coil area probably om top of the compresser, i would have had the guy over right away! at this point, it seems you'll have a he said/she said going on with the contractor, you saying he didn't come and him saying you tampered with the unit causing this snow balling effect. this is a interesting story. finally i'm not taking sides, this has never happened to me, so i don't know what to say. good luck! let us know the outcome!
    yeah that's what I was afraid of too. Thing is, when the fan came off, i called him and when he finally called back, he troubleshooted the situation over the phone and 'walked me through'. When the problems persisted, he actually did come...but 5 days later. The first time he came, he 'inspected' the system said freon levels were fine. yet he still added more freon. He also persisted to change the thermostat (from one digital controller to another) thinking that the system was sending itself 'mixed signals'. He also added another small white elbow drain pipe next to the condensate drain pipe.

    A week after that he returns and that's when he found the leak in the coils.


    When the contractor does return my calls, he always asks if I can assist him over the phone since he knows I'm handy. The other reason is, he lives two hours away and it's difficult him to cross from VA through DC into Maryland.

    But I too wondered about me 'assisting' him. Other than me unplugging the inducer fan and turning off gas service, everytime I've worked on the system was him walking me through over the phone.

    The last time I heard from him was when I had this ridiculous water problem and he wanted me to take off the front panel to the evaporator coil and send him pics of what was inside. I told him enough was enough. no more band-aids and that I didn't feel comfortable with removing the panel particularly since the system seem so fragile and everything was falling apart. Hadn't heard from him since.

    You're right, this could come back to haunt me.

  10. #49
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    I'm definitely going to consider this. What do I need to do?
    If you are referring to my offer, just get my email address from my profile by clicking on my username and let me know the particulars of the company that installed the system and your information. I may already know the company since I serviced Maryland for over a decade as a Regional Technical Service Manager for Goodman Manufacturing.

    I can also get you together with the current RTSM with Goodman who took my place when I left the company.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #50
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    Aug 2011
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    568

    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    yeah that's what I was afraid of too. Thing is, when the fan came off, i called him and when he finally called back, he troubleshooted the situation over the phone and 'walked me through'. When the problems persisted, he actually did come...but 5 days later. The first time he came, he 'inspected' the system said freon levels were fine. yet he still added more freon. He also persisted to change the thermostat (from one digital controller to another) thinking that the system was sending itself 'mixed signals'. He also added another small white elbow drain pipe next to the condensate drain pipe.

    A week after that he returns and that's when he found the leak in the coils.


    When the contractor does return my calls, he always asks if I can assist him over the phone since he knows I'm handy. The other reason is, he lives two hours away and it's difficult him to cross from VA through DC into Maryland.

    But I too wondered about me 'assisting' him. Other than me unplugging the inducer fan and turning off gas service, everytime I've worked on the system was him walking me through over the phone.

    The last time I heard from him was when I had this ridiculous water problem and he wanted me to take off the front panel to the evaporator coil and send him pics of what was inside. I told him enough was enough. no more band-aids and that I didn't feel comfortable with removing the panel particularly since the system seem so fragile and everything was falling apart. Hadn't heard from him since.

    You're right, this could come back to haunt me.
    2 hours away?wow, i've had customers in the past that went with some one else because i was an hour away. alot of people want a more local guy just for situations like this. they want some one local.any way, good luck, this was very educational, tell one story though. i had a neighbor who's 6 year old boiler was blowing off the relief valve, went like that for 2 weeks. finally he calls me up, i go over there, tell him his expansion tank is water logged, i go to the supply house, get a new one, put it in. 2 weeks later tells me there's water near the bottom of the boiler, says it's rusty and leaking. i go over there, turns out, by letting the boiler blow off numerous times on the relief valve, when the HOT BOILER, had street water come in to refill the boiler, his boiler got thermal shock,ie it cracked! needed a new boiler even though the boiler was only 6 years old. point is this neighbor was trying to save money, but ended up costing him $. wel good luck! interesting story!

  12. #51
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    As far as I am concerned, it appears that this entire system needs to be replaced with the proper sized system first off. Both the furnace and the cooling system are too large for the ducting system and too much capacity for the house.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #52
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    Aug 2011
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    Maryland
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    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    2 hours away?wow, i've had customers in the past that went with some one else because i was an hour away. alot of people want a more local guy just for situations like this. they want some one local.any way, good luck, this was very educational, tell one story though. i had a neighbor who's 6 year old boiler was blowing off the relief valve, went like that for 2 weeks. finally he calls me up, i go over there, tell him his expansion tank is water logged, i go to the supply house, get a new one, put it in. 2 weeks later tells me there's water near the bottom of the boiler, says it's rusty and leaking. i go over there, turns out, by letting the boiler blow off numerous times on the relief valve, when the HOT BOILER, had street water come in to refill the boiler, his boiler got thermal shock,ie it cracked! needed a new boiler even though the boiler was only 6 years old. point is this neighbor was trying to save money, but ended up costing him $. wel good luck! interesting story!
    thank you for all of your assistance. this has been very educational to me as well. i definitely have some lessons-learned.

    hopefully RoBoTeq will help me arbitrate. law suit is the last thing i want to do. i've heard and read horror stories.

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