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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    just curious how many bids did you get on this R/R and was he the lowest? just wondering?
    sorry 'bout that. I accidentally answered this question last time but I mistakenly put in pricing so it got deleted. I had 6 bids, then narrowed it down to three. All licensed contractors. I chose the middle of the road.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    when i get home today, i'll take better pictures. here are two videos from my camera phone that I took about a month ago. Things were half as bad then. I'll shoot some better shots this evening.

    http://allwetgoodman.********.com/20...era-phone.html

    Just got home:

    here's the video & the pics: http://allwetgoodman.********.com/

  3. #29
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,323
    I suspect the water issue may be due to an overtightened primary drain fitting. If the threaded male fitting that screws into the primary drain opening was not backed up and or overtightened the pan could be cracked causing a persistent leak.

    At minimum the condenser coil should have been replaced when the fan blade came off preferably a new conducer should have been set.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    I suspect the water issue may be due to an overtightened primary drain fitting. If the threaded male fitting that screws into the primary drain opening was not backed up and or overtightened the pan could be cracked causing a persistent leak.

    At minimum the condenser coil should have been replaced when the fan blade came off preferably a new conducer should have been set.
    Good advice. I'm not getting any response from the contractor. Their voicemail is even full. Looks like I'm going to have to spend more money and bring in another contractor to clean-up what they've done. Interesting thing, they gave me this long speech about hiring guys off the street, and not going for the lowest bidder, and whamo! i got the contractor from hell.

    hopefully it's just backed-up and/or overtightened fitting. Does replacing a cracked pan mean removing the evap coil/evacuating freon?

    as for the condenser, I was hoping for a whole new unit, but I will suffice with a whole new coil if it'll put it back to 'new' condition. what about the refrigerant drier? any need to change that, or i'm good?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    when i get home today, i'll take better pictures. here are two videos from my camera phone that I took about a month ago. Things were half as bad then. I'll shoot some better shots this evening.

    http://allwetgoodman.********.com/20...era-phone.html
    You either have a cracked or blocked condensate drain or wayyyyyyyyyy too much air hitting that coil.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    568
    how long has this leak been happening? also can you see where the white drain pipe goes to?out side? a condensate pump? also if you look at the out door condenser, do you see any frost ice on the bigger copper pipe with the black insulation on it going into the condenser?

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    I agree that the leakage rate suggests that no water is getting down the drainline. The line looks pretty level. I can't tell if it has slope downhill. It should slope about half a bubble on a level. Where does it end? Can you see any water coming out? It should not end in a condensate pump because there is no need to run it that far only to drop into a condensate pump.

    Another suggestion is to call the manufacuter's customer service hot line or email the video link to them along with the link to this thread. This is a safety issue and the manufacturer does not want this to end badly.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by MM#7 View Post
    how long has this leak been happening? also can you see where the white drain pipe goes to?out side? a condensate pump? also if you look at the out door condenser, do you see any frost ice on the bigger copper pipe with the black insulation on it going into the condenser?
    As for pipe outside, water barely trickles out
    No condensate pump

    As for how long this has been happening/ice on the copper pipe, here's a play-by-play:


    - Almost 3months ago, Installation happened on a Saturday

    - Sunday-Tuesday, nice cold house (even though unit was louder than my old 2.5tn Comfortmaker)

    - Came home Wed from work, house was HOT!! Ice on indoor & outdoor coil. Noticed that the outdoor condenser was 'on', but no hot air coming out. Called contractor..no answer as usual. Slept through the night in a hot house with a brand new system that doesn't work.

    - Next Thur evening after work, contractor finally calls back and walks me thru troubleshooting over the phone. Realized the fan had come off outdoor condenser. Without contractor, I ended up taking the cover off condenser and re-attaching the fan blade myself. Bingo it worked!

    - Still Thursday evening, as soon as unit comes back on, water drains both in the basement and out the pipe 50/50 drainage! (but I assumed that was normal since indoor coiled had iced up and is now thawing). Thursday night finally have a cold house again.

    - Friday morning, house still cold. Yay!

    - Friday evening, come home from work, house hot again. This time indoor coil and outdoor copper piping are all frozen solid. Call & text the contractor no answer (as usual). I power down the whole system to let it thaw. Water drains both in the basement and out the pipe. still half on the floor and half out the pipe.

    - Still call & text contractor, but contractor giving me excuses on why he can't make it. So for the next 5 days while waiting for the contractor to come, everyday (sometimes twice a day depending on how hot/humid it is outside), I have to power the system down for about 2 hours for it to thaw and drain, and then I can power it back up for it to cool the house. (Note: when it ices up, both indoor and outdoor copper lines are solid ice and even though system sounds like it's on, there is no air coming out of the vents so I assumed this meant the the evap coil is block of ice too)

    - So now we're almost two weeks into a new system, and I have to continuously thaw the unit just to get air. (Mind you, my wife and son are now sleeping in the basement where it's less hot. Next to this loud ass system). Contractor finally comes, to troubleshoot. He checks the freon level and said it's fine. His solution is to add more freon, change the thermostat (from one digital controller to another), and to add another small white elbow drain pipe next to the condensate drain that you saw in the pics. (Note: before this, there was only one pipe, now there are two)

    - He leaves that evening, and everything worked fine for about 24hours. Now the system is back to icing up. So I go back to my ritual of power up/down the system. Water is now leaking more in the house than it is out the drain. Instead of 50/50 it's now 70/30. I have to wait another week for contractor to return.

    - When contractor returns, he does a leak test outside and discovers that some of the coils have been damaged when the fan fell off 3 weeks prior. He breaks out his soldering gun and repairs the damaged coils. He tests the system and leaves. Finally a cold house again.

    - Now as the days go by, the unit is cooling the house, but I'm noticing more and more water on the floor and running over the entire system. It's now 95/5. More water exiting inside the house than outside the house. Now, the furnace inducer fan is starting to turn on/off by itself. I also notice that when the inducer fan kicks on, it's pushing the hot water heat exhaust the wrong direction and the house is filled with fumes. The wife is beyond pissed that we spend a ton of money on a 'so called upgrade' and now she's starting to get scared when she reminds me of the two stories in the news where the house totally blew up and killed the inhabitants due to faulty heating system. (I then realize that when winter comes I'm going to have a HUGE problem with the furnace)

    - I physically unplug the inducer fan, especially since it's being drenched in water and making a scary grinding noise. I also turn off the gas service to the furnace. Water is pouring over the system on to the floor everyday. I've learned to contain it by constantly replacing towels twice a day. Drenched towels go directly into the washer's spin cycle then right to dryer for reuse. I use about 4 big beach towels for each rotation. I've been calling & texting the contractor every other day since. Before he used to give me an excuse on why he cannot come. Now he just doesn't return the calls. it's going 3 months.

    so in answer to your question, no more ice on coils. 95% water drains inside the house. furnace portion of the system is unusable. blower fan is probably on its last leg since it had been drenched in water. when that goes i guess i'm ass out

    the end
    LOL

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,665
    Have your lawyer send him a letter to come and remove the system and refund your money as I suspect this unit will never provide the comfort you paid for

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    Have your lawyer send him a letter to come and remove the system and refund your money as I suspect this unit will never provide the comfort you paid for
    what if they resist to pay?
    also, i heard that just because you sue in court and obtain favorable judgement, that collecting the money can be impossible sometimes, true?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Assuming that everything stated on this thread is accurate, I have to go along with having that system removed and a properly sized system installed. As for whether or not you will ever see a refund is moot to whether or not that system will ever perform properly.

    You are going to have even worse headaches with the heating system.

    Give the contractor notice to replace the system with properly sized equipment that actually works or to refund all money paid. If the contractor does not comply, take as much action with the MD authorities, BBB, and any other agency that will listen to you.

    My offer to arbitrate with the contractor still stands.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    568

    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by wirelesstim View Post
    As for pipe outside, water barely trickles out
    No condensate pump

    As for how long this has been happening/ice on the copper pipe, here's a play-by-play:


    - Almost 3months ago, Installation happened on a Saturday

    - Sunday-Tuesday, nice cold house (even though unit was louder than my old 2.5tn Comfortmaker)

    - Came home Wed from work, house was HOT!! Ice on indoor & outdoor coil. Noticed that the outdoor condenser was 'on', but no hot air coming out. Called contractor..no answer as usual. Slept through the night in a hot house with a brand new system that doesn't work.

    - Next Thur evening after work, contractor finally calls back and walks me thru troubleshooting over the phone. Realized the fan had come off outdoor condenser. Without contractor, I ended up taking the cover off condenser and re-attaching the fan blade myself. Bingo it worked!

    - Still Thursday evening, as soon as unit comes back on, water drains both in the basement and out the pipe 50/50 drainage! (but I assumed that was normal since indoor coiled had iced up and is now thawing). Thursday night finally have a cold house again.

    - Friday morning, house still cold. Yay!

    - Friday evening, come home from work, house hot again. This time indoor coil and outdoor copper piping are all frozen solid. Call & text the contractor no answer (as usual). I power down the whole system to let it thaw. Water drains both in the basement and out the pipe. still half on the floor and half out the pipe.

    - Still call & text contractor, but contractor giving me excuses on why he can't make it. So for the next 5 days while waiting for the contractor to come, everyday (sometimes twice a day depending on how hot/humid it is outside), I have to power the system down for about 2 hours for it to thaw and drain, and then I can power it back up for it to cool the house. (Note: when it ices up, both indoor and outdoor copper lines are solid ice and even though system sounds like it's on, there is no air coming out of the vents so I assumed this meant the the evap coil is block of ice too)

    - So now we're almost two weeks into a new system, and I have to continuously thaw the unit just to get air. (Mind you, my wife and son are now sleeping in the basement where it's less hot. Next to this loud ass system). Contractor finally comes, to troubleshoot. He checks the freon level and said it's fine. His solution is to add more freon, change the thermostat (from one digital controller to another), and to add another small white elbow drain pipe next to the condensate drain that you saw in the pics. (Note: before this, there was only one pipe, now there are two)

    - He leaves that evening, and everything worked fine for about 24hours. Now the system is back to icing up. So I go back to my ritual of power up/down the system. Water is now leaking more in the house than it is out the drain. Instead of 50/50 it's now 70/30. I have to wait another week for contractor to return.

    - When contractor returns, he does a leak test outside and discovers that some of the coils have been damaged when the fan fell off 3 weeks prior. He breaks out his soldering gun and repairs the damaged coils. He tests the system and leaves. Finally a cold house again.

    - Now as the days go by, the unit is cooling the house, but I'm noticing more and more water on the floor and running over the entire system. It's now 95/5. More water exiting inside the house than outside the house. Now, the furnace inducer fan is starting to turn on/off by itself. I also notice that when the inducer fan kicks on, it's pushing the hot water heat exhaust the wrong direction and the house is filled with fumes. The wife is beyond pissed that we spend a ton of money on a 'so called upgrade' and now she's starting to get scared when she reminds me of the two stories in the news where the house totally blew up and killed the inhabitants due to faulty heating system. (I then realize that when winter comes I'm going to have a HUGE problem with the furnace)

    - I physically unplug the inducer fan, especially since it's being drenched in water and making a scary grinding noise. I also turn off the gas service to the furnace. Water is pouring over the system on to the floor everyday. I've learned to contain it by constantly replacing towels twice a day. Drenched towels go directly into the washer's spin cycle then right to dryer for reuse. I use about 4 big beach towels for each rotation. I've been calling & texting the contractor every other day since. Before he used to give me an excuse on why he cannot come. Now he just doesn't return the calls. it's going 3 months.

    so in answer to your question, no more ice on coils. 95% water drains inside the house. furnace portion of the system is unusable. blower fan is probably on its last leg since it had been drenched in water. when that goes i guess i'm ass out

    the end
    LOL
    i was reading your article, so basically on the condenser outside, the fan came off the fan motor, and YOU put it on yourself? o.k.,and you started the unit back up! ok, then your taking wires off the furnce inside to shut off a inducer motor,ok. seems like your doing an awful lot of your own repairs. this story is sounding very interesting!

    it's just that, i've never seen a home owner so active in doing there own repairs before, just curious, some people would have called another hvac guy, just to get a second opinion, any way, interesting story.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,361
    For that kind of leakage, the condensate pan is almost surely cracked. At this point the furnace life cycle is severely compromised by water leakage. The outdoor fan blade, motor, and condenser coil should be replaced. The compressor has also been compromised by flooding refrigerant during freeze ups and when it was short of refrigerant. This system will never be what you paid for.
    1. Continue your efforts to resolve the issue with your contractor and DOCUMENT every effort. Emails are great. When you talk, make notes and send your notes by email to the contractor ASAP.
    2. Contact the manufacturer about your problems. Post 33.
    3. File a complaint with the Maryland Home Improvement Commission... http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/mhic/ Post 19 The contractor can lose his license and bond if the contractor does not resolve this URGENT problem and if the state rules in your favor. (This will really get the contractor's attention.) Be sure to show them the videos and the toweling and make the point that this is a SAFETY issue and that this leakage would damage the home itself except for your efforts to contain the water at the furnace.


    RoBoTeq had a good suggestion in post 20. and in post 37 above.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
    Mark Twain
    More at: http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/education/

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