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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    15
    The collector is nothing more than copper tube bent into U shapes with each U inside of a glass tube. The tubes are filled with soybean oil and are connected to an oil reservoir at the top of the collector. I think the total capacity was around 4-5 gallons.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,184
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    Best link I've found that describes this system. I want one. http://www.suncoolenergy.com/tech/How%20it%20works.pdf
    Why do you want one??? It really has no hope of doing what they claim.

    That pdf has some misinfo in it. Here is a quote from it:
    The conventional air conditioning system is only able to change a portion of the gas into a liquid state so as when the refrigerant enters into the metering device it is a saturated vapor.
    This is false. A properly charged a/c system has 100% subcooled liquid entering the metering device. If they do not know how a refrigeration cycle works, they have no business hacking into refrigeration circuits.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    forney texas
    Posts
    17,890
    I saw something like this come over the fax machine 6 or 7 years ago. What's missing is the Perpetual Motion Machine required to make it work.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,369
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    Best link I've found that describes this system. I want one. http://www.suncoolenergy.com/tech/How%20it%20works.pdf
    Trust me, D. You do NOT want one of these. That pdf is a joke. Can't even explain basic refrigeration correctly. I think the OP got rooked.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,369
    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    I saw something like this come over the fax machine 6 or 7 years ago. What's missing is the Perpetual Motion Machine required to make it work.
    LOL!!
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,341
    R407c is what is used. According to the ad.
    What a bunch of horse hockey.
    At best it is just bells and whistles that break.
    With all the Pros on this site, Has anyone ever worked on one or installed one?????
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Ocean Pines, MD
    Posts
    7,009
    Does it come with one of the Amish Fireplace thingy's?

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    1,849
    There is another thread were Tass was field testing this thing......

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....2#post10991272
    Last edited by behappy; 08-09-2011 at 09:18 PM.
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195

    Can I get a 30% Tax credit on this unit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobberly View Post
    The collector is nothing more than copper tube bent into U shapes with each U inside of a glass tube. The tubes are filled with soybean oil and are connected to an oil reservoir at the top of the collector. I think the total capacity was around 4-5 gallons.
    This thing is great!

    I did not see the flux capacitor on the diagram.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,977
    I'm getting dog piled and can't defend myself 'cause Hells Kitchen is on. I'll be back....
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,207

    How does the condenser reject the added heat ?

    If the condensing unit is a standard item - how does it reject all the solar added heat?

    Why does the condensing of refrigerant start at the beginning of the condenser?

    Where is this working unit on display?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,369
    From the pdf posted by Tips:

    The working fluid leaves the compressor as a hot, high pressure gas and flows into the condenser. Correct.


    The gases enter the condenser coil and begins cooling and changing back into a liquid at the bottom 1/3 of the coil. Incorrect. The bottom 1/3 on most of today's condenser coils are subcooling circuits.


    When the working fluid leaves the condenser as a semi liquid, its temperature is much cooler and it has changed from a gas to a liquid under high pressure. Incorrect. If subcooling is normal, refrigerant leaving the condenser is subcooled liquid, not a semi-liquid.



    The liquid goes into the evaporator through a very tiny, narrow hole. On the other side, the liquid's pressure drops. When it does it begins to evaporate into a gas. They got that right at least.


    As the liquid changes to gas and evaporates, it extracts heat from the air around it. The heat in the air is needed to separate the molecules of the fluid from a liquid to a gas. It's called phase change. Energy is required for this to happen. Air happens to be the medium in this case that has sufficient heat content to sustain phase change throughout the evap coil.


    By the time the working fluid leaves the evaporator, it is a cool, low pressure gas. It then returns to the compressor to begin its trip all over again. Got that right.


    A solar air conditioner uses a solar panel (not electricity) to super heat the refrigerant (the hotter it is...the higher the energy saved) How so? If that's the case, why have OEMs spent so much time making condenser coils much larger in proportion to compressor capacity in order to provide better rejection of discharge superheat and simultaneously lower head pressure? to deliver a super heated higher pressured gas to a condenser and then to the evaporator and then to the Solar Compressor. "Solar compressor" my foot. It's a conventional compressor being tortured by high head pressure and piss poor suction superheat.



    This super heated gas enters the coil and begins cooling and changing back into a liquid at the very top of the coil. Same happens in conventional condenser coils. Probably sooner than the "solar" version.
    When the working fluid leaves the condenser, its temperature is colder and it has changed from a gas to a liquid under high pressure. It's not cooler because heat over and above heat of compression/discharge superheat was added prior to refrigerant entering the condenser coil.




    By the time the working fluid leaves the evaporator, it is a cool, low pressure gas. It then returns to the solar panel to begin its trip all over again. According to the diagram it first returns to the "solar compressor" prior to re-entering the solar array.



    The Sedna Aire Solar Absorption Air Conditioning System uses a different method. It uses the solar heat from the sun to superheat the refrigerant and delivers it directly to the condenser...by passing the compressor. The superheated refrigerant enables the refrigerant to begin changing state at the top of the condenser coil as well as utilizing more of the condenser cooling face of the coil (not ust the bottom two thirds). They insist on incorrectly stating that conventional condensing coil phase change takes place toward the bottom of the coil. No! The lower third of the coil is a SUBCOOLING CIRCUIT! Get it right! You can't have subcooling unless complete phase change has occurred.


    AND there's no way to bypass the compressor and still hope this thing might work. Superheating the refrigerant does not provide the second of two points of pressure separation that the combined team of metering device and compressor do. What happens when a compressor has weak valves? The system pressures get closer together. What happens when there's NO compressor? Hmm...



    The Sedna Aire process allows more of the refrigerant to change state back into a liquid faster as well as allowing the transformation of more liquid into the metering device. Liquid refrigerant does not "transform" at the metering device. It passes through the metering device and experiences a pressure drop due to expansion into a larger volume of space in addition to the restriction of mass flow. Evap coil tube diameter is larger for more than one reason.


    I just noticed on the diagram in the pdf that the device on the discharge side of the compressor is labeled "four way valve". It isn't drawn like a reversing valve on a heat pump. From how it's drawn I can't see how it can be activated to bypass the compressor. And if it can, how does elevated pressure from the solar collector and condenser NOT backfeed into the evap, with the compressor out of the way? THAT is the question I'd like answered!!
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by behappy View Post
    There is another thread were Tass was field testing this thing......

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....2#post10991272
    I can't access that thread, anything of use in there to me?

    I'd really like to find anyone else that has/had one of these things and find out what they did to resolve their issues with the manufacturer.

    Also, I really wished I had looked "under the hood" to realize I was paying extra to blow up compressors and void warranties.

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