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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    2,190

    The best "solar assist" would be

    lowering the shades when the sun is on that side of the house to reduce load.

    Sounds like Rube Goldberg is active in your area
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    2,190

    Their site says

    By "Super Heating" the refrigerant with the aid of the Solar Collector, we are able to increase the temperature difference between the condenser coil and the ambient temperature. By creating this difference, Sedna Aire is able to utilize the entire coil face at the condenser which allows for a better heat exchange throughout the entire system.

    With a greater heat exchange, Sedna Aire is able to not only reduce the temperature in the conditioned space but also maintain better humidity control which makes the space more comfortable at a higher temperature…in addition your air conditioning unit doesn’t run as long and cycles less.

    With the combination of the solar heat and changing the thermodynamic process of the refrigerant, Sedna Aire is able to reduce the required work of the compression operation of the compressor. This then lowers the required electrical consumption, reduces the running time of the entire system and maintains a more comfortable conditioned space.
    So they are claiming that by ADDING ADDITIONAL LOAD THEY FORCE THE UNIT TO RUN LONGER AND THEREFORE ASSURE YOU OF DEHUMIDIFICATION?

    How can adding load REDUCE the required load ?

    WOW, can't wait to hear this explanation
    You have got to learn from other people's mistakes! Because God knows you don't live long enough to make them all yourself !!!!!!!!

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,350
    Basic vapor compression refrigeration theory: one must have two points of pressure separation to accomplish phase change within a refrigeration loop. These two points are accomplished by the metering device and the compressor.

    There's no way this "solar assist" can work without a compressor. The solar collector can effectively raise pressure on the condenser side via heat gain, but if the compressor were bypassed, the pressure built up in the collector would backfeed into the evaporator and raise its pressure above the saturated vapor temp required to do useful refrigeration.

    So the compressor has to stay in the circuit and stay running. And with what I'm seeing on that diagram above, that's a recipe for disaster.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,629

    Read it again -

    The secret is in the preferential absorption materials affinity for hot molecules.

    Don't you get it? <g>

    PHM
    ------




    Quote Originally Posted by Shophound View Post
    Basic vapor compression refrigeration theory: one must have two points of pressure separation to accomplish phase change within a refrigeration loop. These two points are accomplished by the metering device and the compressor.

    There's no way this "solar assist" can work without a compressor. The solar collector can effectively raise pressure on the condenser side via heat gain, but if the compressor were bypassed, the pressure built up in the collector would backfeed into the evaporator and raise its pressure above the saturated vapor temp required to do useful refrigeration.

    So the compressor has to stay in the circuit and stay running. And with what I'm seeing on that diagram above, that's a recipe for disaster.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,533
    Al I can say is wow.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195
    Whoa!

    Now you're freakin me out PHM.

    Maybe it is for use on different planets

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,629

    When I just read the OP's message it seemed great

    Add solar heat to assist with the heating mode - great idea!

    But adding more heat to the heat that we are already trying desperately to remove during the cooling mode?

    Uhhhh . . . maybe I'm just not bright enough but I'm going to have to have that explained to me better in small meaningful and related English words. Because at this point I sure don't get it.

    But: someone somewhere came up with this thing, right? And of they wanted to just scam people they could have done it easier and cheaper and more profitably and with less likelihood of being caught at it by running un-used lines up to an elaborate empty box on the roof.

    My point is that somebody must have had some thought (no matter how fundamentally deranged) that this thing would actually work. I sure would like to hear that design explanation. <g>

    PHM
    -------





    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bad Dog View Post
    Whoa!

    Now you're freakin me out PHM.

    Maybe it is for use on different planets
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,968
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Add solar heat to assist with the heating mode - great idea!

    But adding more heat to the heat that we are already trying desperately to remove during the cooling mode?

    Uhhhh . . . maybe I'm just not bright enough but I'm going to have to have that explained to me better in small meaningful and related English words. Because at this point I sure don't get it.

    But: someone somewhere came up with this thing, right? And of they wanted to just scam people they could have done it easier and cheaper and more profitably and with less likelihood of being caught at it by running un-used lines up to an elaborate empty box on the roof.

    My point is that somebody must have had some thought (no matter how fundamentally deranged) that this thing would actually work. I sure would like to hear that design explanation. <g>

    PHM
    -------
    I'm with you that there has to be something about it that at least makes sense to them. Their ad states they are changing the whole thermodynamic process of the system and this allows the compressor to work less. The only way I see THAT happening is if they are bringing the suction pressure up closer to the high side pressure. One part of their explanation states their system allows the compressor to operate more like a simple pump.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,968
    Quote Originally Posted by farbeondriven View Post
    the collector is a compressor also....i wonder if a lack of thermal dump of some sorts may have been why flared joints failed...it gots to hot...maybe not controlled properly among other things..the concept could work but having the compressor in series seems like a sure failure...u can use a flame in place of a compressor so why not a collector?
    What exactly is going on in the "collector"? This has got to be the missing part that would make some sense of why this system makes the regular compressor work less hard/less amps. How is this "collector" also acting as a compressor?
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,350
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    What exactly is going on in the "collector"? This has got to be the missing part that would make some sense of why this system makes the regular compressor work less hard/less amps. How is this "collector" also acting as a compressor?
    The way I see it, using common refrigerants like 410A, the collector by itself can't "compress" anything. It can raise the pressure of the refrigerant in the collector, which it obviously did to the point where, between it and the compressor (when it could still run), the piping joints couldn't stand the stress and gave way. But it can't take a low pressure and not only raise it to a high pressure, but maintain a low pressure on the incoming side all the way back to the metering device. Only a compressor can do that.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,968
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcrj View Post
    I am going to say no compression cycle uses a flame, am I right? Absorption cycle does.

    I read somewhere on how this is supposed to work, the compressor is not used at the same time as the solar.

    Sedna Air paid for the new compressor? Sounds like an admission of a serious flaw to me.
    Sometimes it pays to read prior posts! I've never had experience with a system using this "absorption cycle" process, but it makes perfect sense. The OP's system failure is not because the concept is flawed, but likely a result of improper design/safeties or similar. Using the sun rather than a flame is a great concept from an energy point of view-if it can be done successfully.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,968
    Best link I've found that describes this system. I want one. http://www.suncoolenergy.com/tech/How%20it%20works.pdf
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,350
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    Sometimes it pays to read prior posts! I've never had experience with a system using this "absorption cycle" process, but it makes perfect sense. The OP's system failure is not because the concept is flawed, but likely a result of improper design/safeties or similar. Using the sun rather than a flame is a great concept from an energy point of view-if it can be done successfully.

    From the OP:

    The original specifications I read about used R22 but the higher pressure of R410A has be wondering if this design can still work. My short list of questions are:

    What is the design limit for flare/compression fittings?
    How does R410A react when superheated in this fashion?
    How does the power load on the compressor react to pressure/temperature?
    OP states R410A, not lithium bromide, common for absorption systems, or ammonia as the refrigerant in his system.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

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