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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    houston, texas
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    3,787
    The best one can do is to make the necessary changes to the envelope, heat gain can be very hard to catch up to. I know I don't want my unit running 24/7, that's pretty expensive.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

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  2. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195

    So why hire the Engineer in the first place if don't do what he says?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm01 View Post
    They have been closed for construction shut down these last two weeks however this is exactly what I will ask them on Monday. I followed what I felt was the right path, and I don't regret it however I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. Time to dig out .

    I'll tell you, I had 125kBtu and 3.5T. Study says 56kBtu and 2T. I'm leaning to 80k and 3T however I need to challenge them on their assumptions on the manual-j first.
    Hey, Wait a minute.

    You hire the guy with the degree, then question his answers? Worse, you want him to change his assumptions to get the answer you want?

    Sounds exactly like every one else doing a manual J! Change the assumptions, till you get the numbers you want.

    Did any one suggest a 3 ton two stage? That way you get a 2ton and a 3ton.

    Help me understand the logic? Or lack of.

    AC BAD DOG

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Harper View Post
    In my opinion (which may not be worth very much), manual j doesn't accurately account for the volume of the home. Homes with vaulted ceilings need more cfm's than the load specified can deliver. I found this out on my last house. It was 1700 sqft and had vaulted ceilings that peaked at 14 feet. Manual J specified 32400 btu at 75/95. At 93 the system could only maintain 78. I did go through everything to make sure it was running properly, including static pressure. Ran the house on a carrier commercial load sheet and came up 39900 btu's.
    But here is the flip side. Now I have a 2400 sqft home with massive window area. 32 jalousy windows each at least 3x5. R-11 insulation, and flat ceilings. Manual j says 74100 btu's. I have a a 4 ton unit. I can cycle at 72 on a 96 degree day.

    So what is the good middle ground?

    On a vaulted ceiling. I use the average height of the wall.
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  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,518
    Once again. It all goes back to experience. The way we do air conditioning in Texas isn't the same as somebody up north. We would get killed. We're a lot hotter for a lot longer. The way you do heating isn't the same as you do heating. You would get killed. You can size all you want too. But we're pushing 50 days of 100+ temps. People start getting pissed off when their house holds 82 all day. As I had a lady tell me one time. Brian. I don't care about manual j or proper sizing. All I want is my house cold when I want it and I want it hot when I want it. Most of my customers are like this. 82 when it's 110 outside is NOT acceptable. And they're not gonna seal and insulate the house.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas-Tech View Post
    The best one can do is to make the necessary changes to the envelope, heat gain can be very hard to catch up to. I know I don't want my unit running 24/7, that's pretty expensive.
    actually if you figure the inrush amperage to start the equipment, and the wear and tear from starting and stopping, the cost is near the same, this stuff is made to run. I have 2 aircooled RTAA chiller's for process cooling at a plastic plant, they have 80,000 hours of run time since start up in Y2K with only 4000 starts = 20 hrs of full 120% RLA run time a day average, they only get shut down to clean coils and replace a fan motor once in a while. I know that had nothing to do really with the topic but oh well
    It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,618
    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bad Dog View Post
    Hey, Wait a minute.

    You hire the guy with the degree, then question his answers? Worse, you want him to change his assumptions to get the answer you want?

    Sounds exactly like every one else doing a manual J! Change the assumptions, till you get the numbers you want.

    Did any one suggest a 3 ton two stage? That way you get a 2ton and a 3ton.

    Help me understand the logic? Or lack of.

    AC BAD DOG
    funny, isn't it
    It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,741
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    Once again. It all goes back to experience. The way we do air conditioning in Texas isn't the same as somebody up north. We would get killed. We're a lot hotter for a lot longer. The way you do heating isn't the same as you do heating. You would get killed. You can size all you want too. But we're pushing 50 days of 100+ temps. People start getting pissed off when their house holds 82 all day. As I had a lady tell me one time. Brian. I don't care about manual j or proper sizing. All I want is my house cold when I want it and I want it hot when I want it. Most of my customers are like this. 82 when it's 110 outside is NOT acceptable. And they're not gonna seal and insulate the house.
    What is your outdoor design temp?
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  8. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195

    I like the guys who roll their own J's

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Mech View Post
    funny, isn't it
    Yes my brother, It is quite amusing. Lots of J guys on the run right now.



    Guys roll their own J's, then they Relax.

    It is hard for some to get used to these facts.



    Lots of PO'ed customers right now. Mostly those who smoked the Mexican's (Manuel J) sht.

    Put in a nice 3 Ton Two Stage Trane Unit. How about that Southern.

    ACBD

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,518
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    What is your outdoor design temp?
    100. But it depends on the house and what the people's expectations are. The one that screwed us up was the foam house. Expensive ass house. He was told it would maintain 72 when the house was being built. He moved in and wanted it 68 all the time. We got that and now he wants 64 all the time. Last I heard we're holding at 65 in this house. He said it needed to hold that temp. If not, tear the equipment out and give him his money back. If we won't do it. He'll sue us and find somebody who can do it. He has 5 furnaces 95% and 5 a/c's on his house and a workout room with heat pump and a casita with 95% furnace and a/c. You can all figure what that costs to refund his money and he has lawyers that work for him and have nothing better to do. Lots of $$$ to eat. We made it work needless to say. 110 and holding 65.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,618
    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bad Dog View Post
    Yes my brother, It is quite amusing. Lots of J guys on the run right now.



    Guys roll their own J's, then they Relax.

    It is hard for some to get used to these facts.



    Lots of PO'ed customers right now. Mostly those who smoked the Mexican's (Manuel J) sht.

    Put in a nice 3 Ton Two Stage Trane Unit. How about that Southern.

    ACBD
    that my friend is exactly what I did in my own house. 110 heat index, my house is at 72* all the time and right now I am swimming in a clammy 45% humidity. conditions are bad round here.
    It's hard to stop a Trane. but I have made one helluva living keeping them going.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    195

    I betcha he has Hard Nipples as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    100. But it depends on the house and what the people's expectations are. The one that screwed us up was the foam house. Expensive ass house. He was told it would maintain 72 when the house was being built. He moved in and wanted it 68 all the time. We got that and now he wants 64 all the time. Last I heard we're holding at 65 in this house. He said it needed to hold that temp. If not, tear the equipment out and give him his money back. If we won't do it. He'll sue us and find somebody who can do it. He has 5 furnaces 95% and 5 a/c's on his house and a workout room with heat pump and a casita with 95% furnace and a/c. You can all figure what that costs to refund his money and he has lawyers that work for him and have nothing better to do. Lots of $$$ to eat. We made it work needless to say. 110 and holding 65.
    Gotta love it,

    You might be able to hang a coat hanger on em.


    ACBD

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,518
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Mech View Post
    that my friend is exactly what I did in my own house. 110 heat index, my house is at 72* all the time and right now I am swimming in a clammy 45% humidity. conditions are bad round here.
    45% humidity is pretty good around here. Mine hangs there and I'm comfortable.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by kkmcewen View Post
    When you have reached the limit of your unit because of extreme heat, should you just throw in tht towel and turn the thermostat up. My unit will hold 77 until about 3:30. Then it will go to 79 and stay there until about 8:30. We have extreme heat at the moment, around 111 today. Im well over my design temp. My system is running all day long now and wonder if that is bad for it? I thought it might just be better now to set it at 80 and wait for this extrem temp to move on. Every one in my area is posting that there system will not keep up.....so I assume it just because we are so much over our normal highs. I have a 4 ton 16 seer Carrier Infinity heat pump.

    So let me get this straight… its 111* outside and your indoor temp comes up to 79* during the peak of the day that’s a 31* temperature difference!

    Just what exactly is the problem?

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