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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2
    I am looking to replace an old furnace/air filter/humidifier with new.

    I have a two bids:

    Armstrong #G2D80BT150 (150,000 BTU 80%) 2 stage with General Model 1099LH by-pass humidifier

    Carrier 58DLA-135-122 one stage 80%


    Is there really much difference in VALUE between these two systems?

    The first bid comes from the big pros in town - always on time, always knowledgeable, always efficient. Usually more expensive.

    The second bid is from a local smaller company. I don't know their reputation but they have been around for quite awhile.


    I would sure appreciate some guidance.


    [Edited by tparrent on 11-08-2005 at 10:47 PM]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    27
    did you get any kind of itemized bids so you could compare apart from the furnaces? Did you get referances & check out their work. Company size has nothing to do with quality.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Zelienople, Pa
    Posts
    2,965
    NO PRICING QUESTIONS!!!
    It's in the rules you agreed to when you signed up.

    Might as well edit your post before it gets deleted.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    27
    scroll down & read the "which one should I go with thread"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Soside Chicago
    Posts
    377
    since you are over sizing go with the 2 stage

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    When you buy a car you can shop around for the best deal because the make and model will be the same car (aside from options) no matter where you go. No matter what you pay it will perform the same. Not so with furnaces.

    Although a make and model may be the same regardless of where you buy it from, the furnaces will not necessarily perform the same after it is installed. Perhaps one will cut corners and, thus, leave the furnace with inadequate airflow. Perhaps one will not derate while the other does regardless of what the installation instructions specify. There are hundreds of ways to install a furnace but some ways will allow the furnace to perform better than other ways.

    Thus it is not a good idea to shop on price. Shopping for a knowledgeable installer is the better way to go. Incidentally, better installers usually command a higher wage and may even take longer to do the job since he won't cut corners. More time at higher wage means more cost.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2

    Oversizing

    Actually the furnace that will be removed is larger than 150,000 BTU (not sure exactly how big - mayb 165k?)

    The furnace guy said they don't make them that big for home installations anymore.

    Odd since my house is not all that big. I do have a bunch of cathedral ceilings though. And very leaky windows/walls.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rochester, MN
    Posts
    5,304
    Are you planning on updating the windows????


    If you are, then you are really going to be over sized!

    I wouild suggest to update the windows first, then have teh Manaul J done. You'd be suprise how much smaller you will get.

    I took out a 120,000 in mine, and 60,000 went in.

  9. #9
    Thanks Y-Dot.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    88
    Hey Tom,

    Have you done a regression on past gas bills as I suggested a while back? Something you can do without having somebody come in and run through Manual J, and if they do you'll be able to tell if they're in the ballpark.

    Manual J is based on measurements of the house and classification of wall and window types, intended to come up with a pretty good estimate of load. But don't overlook that a working furnace attached to an accurate gas meter for a few years is a pretty unbeatable load measuring instrument as long as you regress against actual degree days to control for weather. Just remember that the number you get will have a nonzero intercept (all your non-heat gas uses), and the slope needs to be multiplied by the efficiency of the existing furnace to get you the load.

    Remember too with furnaces the size number usually quoted is the input rating (before efficiency factor) when you compare the size. So assuming the old furnace is 165k at 70%, that's about 116k output; a 90% furnace with the same output would be only 128k input. I haven't seen your house, but I'll be stunned if your actual load is anywhere near that much. There was a tendency among some contractors in the past to put in some enormous monster and say "there! that'll never be maxed out!"

    The biggest trick in your case if you wanted to estimate load from usage would be teasing apart the usage of the two furnaces. But at least you'll get a ball park. I wouldn't be surprised if you find out the actual load for both combined is less than the one you're talking about.

    -Chap

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,243

    Lightbulb Right Sizing

    Originally posted by tparrent
    Actually the furnace that will be removed is larger than 150,000 BTU (not sure exactly how big - mayb 165k?)

    The furnace guy said they don't make them that big for home installations anymore.

    Odd since my house is not all that big. I do have a bunch of cathedral ceilings though. And very leaky windows/walls.
    ..sounds like 4,500 square feet and 60+ years old
    in International Falls MN

    1. Insulate
    2. Load Analysis
    a brief Manual J can be done in 10 minutes
    knowing window size and insulation

    Infiltration seems to be an UNKNOWN but
    "chapmanf" already discussed ACTUAL energy use.

    3. Life cycle cost beenfit
    .... $0. ___ per kW
    .... $_.__ per MCF
    ___ for starters
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  12. #12
    sadlier:

    How does a consumer know if an installer is knowledgeable or not? I just had the most expensive company in town tell me something about sealing ducts that is factually inaccurate, and indicates that they'd do an inferior job. They have an AAA rating with the Better Business Bureau, no consumer complaints, and they've been around since 1970.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    763
    I always thought the better business bureau was a joke. nobody reports anybody. and second they call once a year and for $xxx we can make ya a member and blow sunshine up your dress. I'd say references make a difference.

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