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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88
    Following is the American Standard proposal I have accepted :
    80% furnace: AUD100C936K
    12SEER heat pump: 2A6H2036A100A
    High efficiency coil: TXCO36S3HPD
    Expansion Valve
    Humidifier
    Bayvent Chimney kit
    non-prog t-stat; Permit
    5yr P&L warranty if maintained by them - not sure what this means - but isn't this supposed to be a manufacturer's warranty

    Need some suggestions on the following:
    1. I'm trying to get a programmable thermostat instead - he says he doesn't recommend programmable for heat pumps (what do you all think?) - anyways that would be an additional $110. Eitherway programmable or non - which model should I get for the above dual fuel setup?

    2. He suggested adding low returns and making the high returns louvered in the basement to heat more evenly. what he said about the basement makes sense - since the Registers are located high and returns are high as well.
    He also suggested the same thing for the main floor (adding louvered low returns) for the same reason. This would be an additional $250. Do you all think this is a good idea?

    3. Also, would someone be kind enough to lookup the match-up on this one to see what HSPF or SEER I'd be getting?

    Thanks yall... the end is in sight.
    I'll make sure I post before and after pics

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,591
    What are you using for a dual fuel kit? Setbacks for heat pumps aren't always the best idea, especially as it gets colder out. In mild weather, may be OK. I put my stat on the wall 3 years ago and haven't programmed heat yet, just leave it at one place.

    Why a chimney vent kit? If the furnace is in the basement, the kit is sucking warm air up the chimney 24 hours a day. Air you paid to heat! This effectively makes your 80% furnace more like a 70% furnace.

    http://www.ariprimenet.org for ratings

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    996
    Agree, what's with the vent kit? Should use a Vision Pro Tstat, can program it to programable or standard setup. I use a setback tstat but only set it back by 1 degree at night time.
    "Go big or Go Home"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88

    Vent kit was recommended by 2 contractors

    One reputable contractor recommended because I have terracota lined chimney and if I don't put the chimney liner then a vent kit may be needed to keep the exhaust warm enough to prevent condensation in the flue - on really cold days - causing the exhaust to backup into the house.

    I asked another contractor about it - and he said it wasn't needed - since nothing is changing as far as the setup - because the old furnace was also an 80% (140k btu input, 112k btu output).
    But the major difference now is the furnace is smaller (100k btu input, 80k btu output).

    The contractor I'm going with thinks its not a bad idea.

    I'm not sure what the county inspector will have to say if I don't put in either (chimney liner or vent).

    Now i'm confused on this one.

    in answer to your question:
    he didn't mention any particular model. the proposal just says "Fossil fuel control" and non-programmable t-stat.

    Another question: the other guy that was going to do the Trane - said I won't need a "dual fuel kit" if I get the Programmable touch-screen t-stat (the 802 model).
    Should I be asking for something specific for my configuration - either for a "dual fuel kit" or for the t-stat?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    A programmable is fine for heat pumps, but you don't want to set back much at all during heating season (I use 1-3 degrees myself, and only go to three degrees in spring and fall, when the heat pump can handle the recovery on its own).

    That's not to say it's not worth getting a programmable, though, because there is still cooling season to deal with! Also, with dual fuel in really cold climates (where you are using the furnace almost exclusively in the winter because it's always too cold for the HP to run) you can go back to using setbacks normally in deep winter.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88

    thanks a lot

    I think my contractor is recommending a non-programmable ACONT401 or a ACONT401 - with a "fossil fuel kit" setup.

    but based on responses here - it seems clear a prgrammable will be worth the additional cost.
    would the ACONT802 (7-Day Digitial Programmable 3 Heat / 2 Cool All Cooling and HP Models) be the most appropriate?

    The Trane dealer mentioned that if I get this t-stat I wouldn't need a "fossil fuel kit". Is this true?
    If so then I could ask my current contractor to forego the "fossil fuel kit" and do the ACONT802 t-stat instead.



    as far as the Bayvent kit - I'm still not sure...

    btw: it was "heatpumpguru" a board member who had recommended that I get a Bayvent kit if I'm not doing a chimney liner
    and he was genuinely concerned that the other Trane contractor didn't think it was needed.

    so any help on this count (Bayvent or not) would be greatly appreciated.
    I realize this is probably a local code thing - and it would greatly depend on the inspector - so I could ask the contractor to forego the Bayvent for now and install it (or the liner) only if the inspector requires it.

    Thanks again everyone!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    677

    You must etermine if the chimney is sized properly for the furnace. Most masonry chimneys, tile lined or not, are too large for the appliances attached to them. This can cause poor venting and the exhaust to back draft into the house. The exhaust from a new 80%+ furnace has an extermely high dew point making it very heavy and though it is being mechanically forced out of the chimney it still has trouble going upm the chimney. If the chimney is too big the flue gasses have an opertunity to expand and cool off. That is when they start to fall back down the chimney. Eventully they will heat up , hopefully, and start to vent correctly but that time can be very long and very dangerous with a oversized chimney. A liner is necessary to correctly size the chimney. If, and this is a big if, the chimney is indeed tile lined all the way through, a Bayvent can be used, if a liner can not be installed. The Bayvent makes the furnace venting like an old school furnace in that it allows some of the relatively drier basement air mix in with the high dew point exhaust gas thereby lowering the exhaust gas dew point making the exhaust lighter and allowing it to rise up the chimney easier.Whew.
    The high dew point exhaust also causes the morter in the chimney to break down causing a whole bunch of other structural problems with the chimney.
    Bottom line moisture is bad so get your chimney lined, it's not that big of deal.










  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88

    liner or bayvent

    I discussed this with the contractor and although his explanation was not as thorough.... he said if I don't put a liner in - the Bayvent will be needed by the inspector.
    and he says the loss in efficiency will only be about 2% (does anyone know if its 2% or 10 or more?). as a side question would the heat-pump also vent through the same - now that is a bigger loss.

    anyways. he is willing to do an aluminum liner for only $100 more. (stainless would be several hundred more).

    as for why he doesn't do a programmable t-stat - when you set it back, it would use the gas furnace to bring the temperature up. he says its probably going to cost me more on gas.
    but the non-programmable t-stat would have the heat pump run constantly to maintain the temperature

    I'm still not sure how this would help in the total cost of operation - since maintaining a temperature for a long time might cost me a lot in electric as opposed to using gas to quickly bring it up to temp at the end of setback.

    either way... he says even with a Programmable t-stat - ACONT802 (3 heat/2 cool) he would still use a Fossil fuel kit - because that would be easier to trouble shoot.

    any help would be greatly appreciated - since I have to let him know tonight which way I'm going with
    1) the Bayvent vs Aluminum Liner
    2) Programmable vs non-programmable

    thanks
    -shaum




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Charlotte, N.C.
    Posts
    965
    I WOULD'NT GO WITH A PROGRAMMABLE T-STAT, IF YOU DO DON'T SET IT BACK MUCH. HEAT PUMPS ACTUALLY DON'T USE THAT MUCH ELECTRICITY EXCEPT WHEN THE AUX STRIPS ARE ON, BUT WITH A DUAL FUEL SETUP YOU WON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM. IF YOUR CHIMMNEY IS IN GOOD CONDITION JUST GO WITH THE BASIC VENT THE STAINLESS IS'NT WORTH IT.

    HOPE THIS HELPS
    TREY

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88

    what do you mean by "basic vent"?

    Trey: do you mean the bayvent system? or a basic aluminum liner? (this apparently has to be replaced every 10 years)

    or do you mean leave it as is - terracota lined. The chimney is kina wide probably about 10" x 8".

    I do plan to set-it back quite a bit when I'm not home and at nights - so a Prg. t-stat would be worth it?


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    996
    Just 4" aluminium liner is all that is needed, should be no problem to fish down the chimney. At $100 more it is well worth it.
    "Go big or Go Home"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hockessin,DE
    Posts
    88

    thaks again... what would most people do

    I wonder what do most people that don't know about this forum do...

    gez they fall under the "ignorance is bliss" category - nutil the repair bills mount and they just blame it on the brand name or the installer and move on.

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