Replyperhaps there is crap floating around from the previous burn out and it plugged the new orifices right away, I would get rid of the orifices and replace them with a TXV
Regular Guest
Working on an 7-10 year old Trane Voyager RTU thats about 5 tons i'm guessing, and experiencing low suction pressure. A different service tech where i work came to the conclusion that this unit had plugged orifices and I was sent to install a new orifice kit. When I got there, I did observe the orifices frosted up.
Here are some numbers before I performed the work...
ODA: 84 degrees
Head press: 230-240#
Suction: 38 - 42#
Superheat: 50 degrees
Subcooling: 22 degrees
RAT: 75 degrees, SAT: 60 degrees (15 TD)
LL temp: 88 degrees, Suction line temp: 68 degrees
No temp drop accross the drier and no temp drop up to the liquid header.
Changed out the orifices with the new orifice kit and weighed in charge...long story short... I'm getting the same numbers as above.
This compressor had been changed out about year ago because it was shorted to ground...and why was it shorted?? Dont know, didn't get that info.
I find this to be incredibly odd and not sure what to do next.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Oil logged in evep? This is screaming a restriction in the evap, could it be? Possibly an oversized replacement compressor?
Guest
perhaps there is crap floating around from the previous burn out and it plugged the new orifices right away, I would get rid of the orifices and replace them with a TXV
AOP Committee/Professional Member*
Before installing new orifices or a txv kit I would look at pressurizing the suction line with nitrogen and blowing out whatever might have been in the evap through the header connections, so that is a known value, and then the line between the dryer and header. That way, you have eliminated them as possibilities if more diag is needed later, and of course, to help eliminate the need for "more diag later."
Your numbers suggest a lack of refrigerant in the evap, and I think you are onto something when thinking that the new orifices are blocked. One thing you can due is power the unit down and remove the belt, so you can see where in the evap the frosting occurs, and whether or not it is "even."
Since you will be opening the system again, I think the TXV conversion kit is the way to go.
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2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
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Regular Guest
I agree that txv,s are the way to go. However, I was told by Trane tech that these units run a lower than normal suction. Yours sounds a little lower than even they run, though.
Professional Member
disable the blower and see where the lines start to freeze first. That will be where your pressure drop will be. No temp drop over the liquid line drier does not prove a clear line drier. Make it a habit to install a liquid line tap after the line drier when you open up a system so you can check pressure drop and get an accurate subcool reading.
Professional Member*
Did you replace the drier as well?
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Regular Guest
Yes, I did replace the drier, and yes, I really wish I would've installed a tap just before the liquid header...will be time consuming to do now. Also, with 22 degrees subcooling measured at the LL header, there has to be a full column of liquid to the orifices...I realize crazy things can happen, but im convinced there's a full column.
Couple things I did forget to mention. The old orifices looked clean as a whistle, so I'm not convinced this is the problem anymore, and I don't believe retrofitting with a txv will remedy this particular problem.
Also, I did put an extra 3# of 22 in just to see what would happen which did improve the suction to 55#, but I was flirting with 300 #'s of HP.
The reason I did this is because I thought I remembered hearing from a Trane rep a few years ago that there were some models of Tranes that had incorrect charges on the nameplate, and that 2# extra needed to be added...has anyone else heard of this?
I did not get a superheat and subcooling reading after doing this becuase I got pulled off for an urgent service call so I shut the unit down for the weekend. But if my memory is correct, then I'm clinging to the possibility of a dirty condenser.
Pulling the belt and looking for the frost pattern is a good idea that I will try on Monday. We also have thermal imager that I might bring along too.
Professional Member
Originally Posted by Hook Echo
If you were running 22* of subcooling before you added the extra gas your overcharged..
Where did you take the high side pressure reading?
1. Discharge of compressor?
2.liquid line?
Gotta have the right tool for the job!
Where is all the stuff MADE IN THE USA?
"Thats what we do Troy. Incredible, Invisible, Imbelivable things. We are an Unseen, Unknown, Unvincible fraternity of craftsman.."
Professional Member
I would also check to see if it is moving enough air. The belt might be loose or some of the supply diffusers could be closed. Check the amp draw of the blower motor.
Professional Member
That high superheat says restriction..
I could see your view if the superheat was lower.
Gotta have the right tool for the job!
Where is all the stuff MADE IN THE USA?
"Thats what we do Troy. Incredible, Invisible, Imbelivable things. We are an Unseen, Unknown, Unvincible fraternity of craftsman.."
Professional Member
You're right, I missed that on his post. High SH and high SC, most likely a restriction.
Professional Member*
those units do run lower suction 60-65, not in the 40's.
agreed no airflow issue or SH would be short.
take bellt off as said and run, see where the restriction is
Professional Member*
Block your condenser off and get you discharge pressure to 300 psi then recheck your readings.
Guest
recently I encounter another voyager with similar set of problems, 2 stages RTU, both evaporators starving, new compressors, superheat way up there with high supcooling, after changing the orifices to TXV's everything went back to normal but the orifices looked clean as whistle, wonder if the crap blocking them was moved while recovering or... ?? who knows what a piss poor design that was.
Regular Guest
Could be an oil logged evaporator.
Guest
oil logged evaporator are kinda of rare in air conditioning, with low compressor ratios, high velocities,temperatures and short piping runs is very unlikely that large quantities of oil would log anywhere besides the total oil charge for a typical RTU isn't much.
Professional Member
Did you put a oversized dryer in it or the little ones they come from the factory with, also did you nitrogen purge while brazing in the new orifice header?
Regular Guest
Returned today to do a bit more troubleshooting...long story shot, same type of numbers and no conclusions. Pulled blower belt and all circuits looked to be feeding ok. Service manager told me to go ahead and order a txv kit - our parts ordering guy said they didnt have one for this model.
M/N: YCD090C3H0BC
S/N: J41102181F
Guest
Dont buy from Trane their parts guys are on crack. go to United get a 8 tons Sporlan TXV, matching distributor and a roll of tubing for the octopus, if you dont feel like doing it the hard way, Sporlan can make the kit for you, talk to your local sales rep, http://www.sporlanonline.com/unitedstates.htm
Professional Member*
Trane doesn't sell a TXV kit for these units. This is something your going to have to fabricate yourself. Follow Hvacpope's advise and buy the individual parts. And don't let your parts ordering guy at the shop order your parts because this is something that he will screw up unless he's an experienced tech. You'll probably need to go into the supply house yourself and match up these parts.
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