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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    13
    I just had a new Goodman split system heat pump installed, CPLJ36-1B 3T condenser with ARUF042-00A-1A 3.5T air handler with 15kw electric strips. Install was done by licensed hvac tech whom I work with in my company, myself being a materials engineer, thus being a typical engineer with questions and learning/understanding about hvac during this whole install. Anyway, my new lineset which was installed is 25ft. Goodman states condenser comes precharged with enough R22 for matched indoor coil, which mine is, and for 15ft of lineset. Using their table to determine the additional R22 for extra 10ft of lineset equalled approximately 6 oz, which he added. Went though all system checks which checked out ok, although unfortunately weather is too cold to properly check pressures in a/c mode since it was only 50F outside. So he had to use the hot gas method in heat mode of measuring surface temp of large vapor line near compressor which according to Goodman should be 110F plus ambient temp. Well, vapor temp was only showing 115F with 50F ambient, which should have been 160F. He started recovering R22 8 oz at a time, until he had removed 32 oz. This had raised vapor temp to 141F, but still 19F short of optimum. But we both questioned the removal of 2 lbs of R22 from the factory charge??? He couldn't believe that it would be overcharged that much from the factory? Anyone have any insight on this? He is calling Goodman tomorrow to discuss details since he does not specialize in heat pumps, but I thought I'd post here to get any other expert opinions. Something else that I don't understand, so with the removal of R22, and the 36F increase of vapor line temp, the supply air temp of 95F did not change?? (return air temp was 69F) Thanks in advance for any info.

    Chad

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Gone
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    5,340
    Hey RoBoTeq:

    Is this the excellent training you were talking about that Gooman / Amana gives?

    Looks to me like the unqualified so called technician is leaving a homeowner stranded without a professional installation from an unqualified person.

    The post above is just more evidence to what I have said all along which is, your chances of a professional installation from a qualified technician go DOWN 100 fold when you buy GoodDUMB™ equipment. No telling what else he did wrong to shorten the life of the equipment.


  3. #3
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    Mar 2004
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    “Training? Literature? Goodman has it all. So...you don't like the way Goodman does business. Me? I'll stick with the program that has been the most successful.“……RoBoTeq



    RoBo, if the original post is what you call success, I would hate to see what you call a failure.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    55

    Talking Wow madeinusa your right.

    Your right about Trane look at this high quality install. I mean this tech look like he did not miss one class from Trane. I know he could not be a hack because hacks can not buy from Trane. Look at post below.
    madeinusa just put a sock in it. Either help the guy out or not. Also I will be glad to show you where to buy Rheem, Bryant, Comfortmaker or Amana online.


    Thanks, just you average homeowner




    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=86110

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,548
    It sure could be overcharged right from the factory...I had a airhandler arrive without the nitro charge, and promptly sent it back. The best method is to pull entire charge and weigh it back in, with lineset length included,until it warms up and can be checked in cooling mode. Robo does have some winter charging method of (I think) 126 degrees+(ambient) or something like that....he'll fill you in.

    [Edited by smokin68 on 10-28-2005 at 08:25 AM]
    If everything was always done "by the book"....the book would never change.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    S.W. PA
    Posts
    3,298
    Check the large valve temp and add 110 degrees to ambient no need to go into the cabinet to check charge

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    My initial guess would be the person working on the system does not actually understand what they are doing.

    Is that temperature probe really well insulated? Has the system been checked for a possible reversing valve issue? Could there be contaminants in the system? Was the coil and lineset properly evacuated.

    As far as maidenusa is concerned; personally attacking me does not make anything he has lied about correct.

    I'm just another tech here to help. From what I have read so far on this thread, this is a DIYer that got what he paid for.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13
    roboteq, you are correct that my tech does not specialize in heat pumps, hence the questions i posted. however, he is the hvac tech at my place of business whom takes care of all of the various units at our plant and i decided to have him do the install. regardless, to answer your questions, his digital temp probe was well insulated as well as being under the 1/2" thick foam insulation on the vapor line. the reversing valve appears to work properly based on the one time he did put in a/c mode shortly, as well as during defrost cycles it appears to reverse properly. he did properly leak check and then evacuate the indoor coil and lineset before charging it with the 6 oz addition for the additional lineset per goodman table, and then opened up the valves on the outdoor coil. he made some phone calls yesterday and came to the conclusion that it seems that charging in heat mode by the temp equation is not the best, since by getting the optimum charge in heat mode, it will not be the optimum charge overall since heat mode uses less refrigerant than cooling mode. regardless, he plans on adding the proper amount of R22 back. luckily the weather looks like it will cooperate sunday/monday as it's supposed to be 60-65, so he will be able to switch to a/c mode and do the proper superheat and pressure checks. i am not a DIYer, but technically i'd be a LIYer, as in learn it yourselfer, as in i try to learn and understand how and why things work.

    thanks,
    chad

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    7,545
    I would say made in the usa is like the so called technician in the original posters post.....inexperienced.

    Lot of them out there...and if you will notice when in the supply house....its always the young fresh out of school guys who do most of the brand bashing....its usually also common to hear brand bashing when someone gets stumped on a unit....

    Ive tried that goodman thing a few times....most of what we do is straight ac but we do see some goodman HPs from time to time....it works.... Ive also seen another manufacturer...I think....or somewhere besides goodman has a similer...or same method....

    quote from the original poster.....
    "roboteq, you are correct that my tech does not specialize in heat pumps, hence the questions i posted. however, he is the hvac tech at my place of business whom takes care of all of the various units at our plant and i decided to have him do the install" <<<< sounds like a maintenance man...or something...probably epa and nate certified...could also have a state masters license...all the factory training in the world too......doesnt mean a damn thing if you cant apply it in the field.

    I would have found the real problem before dumping 32 ounces of refrigerant....and if I could find no obvious problems I would have blown the charge to atmosphere in direct defiance of the epa and then weighed it in..... then went from there

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Originally posted by corny
    and if I could find no obvious problems I would have blown the charge to atmosphere in direct defiance of the epa and then weighed it in..... then went from there
    You wouldn't know experience if it hit you in the face.

    Hacks blow the charge being they don't have the money to purchase the correct tools in order to run a professional operation.

    Edit: Obviously you can not read either, because you can not find in either post where I stated anything pertaining to the equipment, so I will just have to assume by you running your mouth, what I said hit home for you too.

    [Edited by madeinusa on 10-29-2005 at 03:26 AM]

  11. #11
    Originally posted by corny
    and if I could find no obvious problems I would have blown the charge to atmosphere in direct defiance of the epa and then weighed it in..... then went from there
    If you are going to break the EPA guidelines (knowing that it's wrong), what would make us think you are going to perform the rest of your job correctly?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    southeast USA Occupation:HAVC tech
    Posts
    552
    This is to all who care to read it but mostly it is directed to madeinusa... Robo and I had a few disagreements when I first started posting here.. I perceived him as an educated know it all who jumped at a chance to denegrate someones opinion that conflicted with his own. Simply stated I was incorrect. Robo has offered help to almost everyone who has requested it of him.. Is he opinionated? Is he a bit combative when attacked? Of course he is, he's human. But he is a helpful person with no hidden agenda that I've been able to ascertain. Oh and by the way.. I am a tech who does an install from time to time.. I know much about many things and I know very little about everything. I could have installed Trane, American Standard, Rheem-Ruud, York-Luxair, lennox,Bryant-carrier of any one of a dozen more systems in my own house.. I chose and choose Goodman products.. It is good equipment without all of the whistles and bells that inevitably go bye bye in short order on most of the " superior" brands.. Of course this is just my own slant and others will have and are welcome to their own.
    AJS
    _______________________

    Always tell the truth and you never have to remember what you! said!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Waterford Michigan
    Posts
    2,668

    Wink

    Originally posted by ajscharper
    This is to all who care to read it but mostly it is directed to madeinusa... Robo and I had a few disagreements when I first started posting here.. I perceived him as an educated know it all who jumped at a chance to denegrate someones opinion that conflicted with his own. Simply stated I was incorrect. Robo has offered help to almost everyone who has requested it of him.. Is he opinionated? Is he a bit combative when attacked? Of course he is, he's human. But he is a helpful person with no hidden agenda that I've been able to ascertain. Oh and by the way.. I am a tech who does an install from time to time.. I know much about many things and I know very little about everything. I could have installed Trane, American Standard, Rheem-Ruud, York-Luxair, lennox,Bryant-carrier of any one of a dozen more systems in my own house.. I chose and choose Goodman products.. It is good equipment without all of the whistles and bells that inevitably go bye bye in short order on most of the " superior" brands.. Of course this is just my own slant and others will have and are welcome to their own.
    When's the wedding?

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