20 SEER,, what next 30 SEER.

[42yrs exp]

I was talking to an old hvac friend today, and he said there is a 20 SEER system available. The company he works for is a LENOX dealer. So I am assuming it is the Lenox
Let's see, How do they get the high 20 SEER?

1. Larger Condenser,more coils
2. Two speed Compressor
3. TXV metering device(EETXV)
4. Variable speed furnance motor DC)
5. Variable speed condenser motor
6. variable pitch condenser blade
7. Refrigerant 410a

Is there anything I missed.

How are they going to go higher. Gee maybe a three story condener.

Anyone have any info on this?

[docholiday]

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

As I said before, thermally there is not much left, Its now just a matter of reducing watts. So coils are really as large as they are going to get until someone can predict wind or develop a chimney effect.

[amickracing]

I think I read somewhere on here there's a 22 SEER avalible.

I'm really starting to wonder if this SEER rating is kinda like the horsepower rating on a dyno. You can really manipulate it to get teh numbers you want (with in reason).

[mister freeze]

arrr arrr arrrr arrrrrrrr

[mark beiser]

Every time subjects like this come up, I get reminded of this job, it makes me laugh for some reason.

The one on the left is 19 SEER, the one on the right is 10 SEER, both are 2.5 ton units.

[tpa-fl]

Here's a system which supposedly gets 32 SEER:

http://www.solcool.net/

[dkinz]

Originally posted by mark beiser
[B]EThe one on the left is 19 SEER, the one on the right is 10 SEER, both are 2.5 ton units.

So, SEER is like the metric equivelent of cubic feet.

[hq4ever]

"7. Refrigerant 410a"

Does using the newer refrigerant really add to the efficiency? I don't want to start the R22 vs. 410A debate, but I didn't think that 410a was any more efficient.

[peytonc2682]

How about a variable speed compressor? There is always something else that you can make variable speed.

Instead of making the heating and cooling systems more effcient, we should be making the houses more effcient. Like better building materials, more and better insulation. If the houses were build better, you wouldnt need nearly as much heating or cooling. I went to an underground house in Arkansas one time, 3500sqft with a 2ton heatpump; Extremely low operating cost. We could also use heat recovery systems like Florida Heatpump makes to heat water with the AC system to elminate the need and cost of operating a Water Heater.

[Edited by peytonc2682 on 10-26-2005 at 02:52 PM]

[docholiday]

Originally posted by hq4ever
"7. Refrigerant 410a"

Does using the newer refrigerant really add to the efficiency? I don't want to start the R22 vs. 410A debate, but I didn't think that 410a was any more efficient.

Ever so slightly at ARI conditions. Plus, who wants to dump a bunch of money into R&D for a product that will be obsolete in 3 years?

[docholiday]

Originally posted by peytonc2682
How about a variable speed compressor? There is always something else that you can make variable speed.


[Edited by peytonc2682 on 10-26-2005 at 02:52 PM]

Starting against a load with a VS is hard and I am suspect that the inrush amps to charge the capacitors would be huge. Freq drives have been used for years but not any more efficient. But hey thinking outside the box is always good.

[curry]

Originally posted by amickracing
I think I read somewhere on here there's a 22 SEER avalible.

I'm really starting to wonder if this SEER rating is kinda like the horsepower rating on a dyno. You can really manipulate it to get teh numbers you want (with in reason).

Actually its seer and its' by Nordyne.

And it make me so happy I could jump up and down and whoop!

The rifgt size company for the guys who want to stay one man shops and growing at a rate that will allow larger companies to derive benefits from them too.

[mlbussert]

Hey everyone,

I have read this post with interest. Some of you pros assert that there really isn't that much more room for improvement as far as SEER ratings go; or at least that is what I understood.
I have a question: is it possible that some of you don't see room for improvement just because it's hard to visualize it? What I mean is that sometimes we don't see a possible solution to a problem because we are fixed within a certain way of thinking?

The reason I ask this is twofold. Although I am not a scientist, I still understand, at a basic level, the laws of thermodynamics, so I believe I might have a basic understanding of the limitations involved in HVAC.

Nonetheless, my understanding is still just basic.
On the other hand, as I understand it there are plenty of examples throughout history, of scientists who went against the prevailing paradigm and made advances in science. The super-famous book by Thomas Kuhn comes to mind: "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".
Please note that I know Kuhn's ideas mostly from the philosophical point of view, not so much the "hard science" one.

So I restate my question, as a lay person and in good faith, is there really not a lot of room for improvement?
Best regards.

[knippknipp]

[i]Originally posted by docholiday
Starting against a load with a VS is hard and I am suspect that the inrush amps to charge the capacitors would be huge. Freq drives have been used for years but not any more efficient. But hey thinking outside the box is always good. [/B]

Yup. Remember the grossly over controlled Trane XV1500's? Compressors had a very unique sound as they started and ramped up.

[smokin68]

Is improving efficiency by outrageous standards really worth it in the long run(better and better insulation,tighter houses,higher seer)? Now you need more fresh air than ever to prevent sick building syndrome, and it's going to get worse. Adding this outside air instantly effects the units efficiency, so it's more efficient,but runs longer. Not to mention all the bad backs out there from lifting these monster condensers. A 5 ton 19 seer might just be the right size for the 8x10 shed slab you have out back....

[m1cowden]

Of course there is room for improvement. I don't clame to know how but to think there are no more improvments to be made is kind of like the greatest minds in the world at one time beleaving the world was flat. What about things like var. speed compressor motors, aor working on better oils.I dont know the answer ,but i do know that technology will never stop improving