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  1. #1
    42yrs exp is offline Professional Member BM -bad email address
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    176
    I was talking to an old hvac friend today, and he said there is a 20 SEER system available. The company he works for is a LENOX dealer. So I am assuming it is the Lenox
    Let's see, How do they get the high 20 SEER?

    1. Larger Condenser,more coils
    2. Two speed Compressor
    3. TXV metering device(EETXV)
    4. Variable speed furnance motor DC)
    5. Variable speed condenser motor
    6. variable pitch condenser blade
    7. Refrigerant 410a

    Is there anything I missed.

    How are they going to go higher. Gee maybe a three story condener.

    Anyone have any info on this?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

    As I said before, thermally there is not much left, Its now just a matter of reducing watts. So coils are really as large as they are going to get until someone can predict wind or develop a chimney effect.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    7,405
    I think I read somewhere on here there's a 22 SEER avalible.

    I'm really starting to wonder if this SEER rating is kinda like the horsepower rating on a dyno. You can really manipulate it to get teh numbers you want (with in reason).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Quincy, Il
    Posts
    24
    arrr arrr arrrr arrrrrrrr

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Every time subjects like this come up, I get reminded of this job, it makes me laugh for some reason.

    The one on the left is 19 SEER, the one on the right is 10 SEER, both are 2.5 ton units.

    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    1,634
    Here's a system which supposedly gets 32 SEER:

    http://www.solcool.net/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    107
    Originally posted by mark beiser
    [B]EThe one on the left is 19 SEER, the one on the right is 10 SEER, both are 2.5 ton units.
    So, SEER is like the metric equivelent of cubic feet.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    32
    "7. Refrigerant 410a"

    Does using the newer refrigerant really add to the efficiency? I don't want to start the R22 vs. 410A debate, but I didn't think that 410a was any more efficient.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    243
    How about a variable speed compressor? There is always something else that you can make variable speed.

    Instead of making the heating and cooling systems more effcient, we should be making the houses more effcient. Like better building materials, more and better insulation. If the houses were build better, you wouldnt need nearly as much heating or cooling. I went to an underground house in Arkansas one time, 3500sqft with a 2ton heatpump; Extremely low operating cost. We could also use heat recovery systems like Florida Heatpump makes to heat water with the AC system to elminate the need and cost of operating a Water Heater.

    [Edited by peytonc2682 on 10-26-2005 at 02:52 PM]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by hq4ever
    "7. Refrigerant 410a"

    Does using the newer refrigerant really add to the efficiency? I don't want to start the R22 vs. 410A debate, but I didn't think that 410a was any more efficient.
    Ever so slightly at ARI conditions. Plus, who wants to dump a bunch of money into R&D for a product that will be obsolete in 3 years?


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by peytonc2682
    How about a variable speed compressor? There is always something else that you can make variable speed.


    [Edited by peytonc2682 on 10-26-2005 at 02:52 PM]
    Starting against a load with a VS is hard and I am suspect that the inrush amps to charge the capacitors would be huge. Freq drives have been used for years but not any more efficient. But hey thinking outside the box is always good.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by amickracing
    I think I read somewhere on here there's a 22 SEER avalible.

    I'm really starting to wonder if this SEER rating is kinda like the horsepower rating on a dyno. You can really manipulate it to get teh numbers you want (with in reason).
    Actually its seer and its' by Nordyne.

    And it make me so happy I could jump up and down and whoop!

    The rifgt size company for the guys who want to stay one man shops and growing at a rate that will allow larger companies to derive benefits from them too.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    57

    Lay person's question

    Hey everyone,

    I have read this post with interest. Some of you pros assert that there really isn't that much more room for improvement as far as SEER ratings go; or at least that is what I understood.
    I have a question: is it possible that some of you don't see room for improvement just because it's hard to visualize it? What I mean is that sometimes we don't see a possible solution to a problem because we are fixed within a certain way of thinking?

    The reason I ask this is twofold. Although I am not a scientist, I still understand, at a basic level, the laws of thermodynamics, so I believe I might have a basic understanding of the limitations involved in HVAC.

    Nonetheless, my understanding is still just basic.
    On the other hand, as I understand it there are plenty of examples throughout history, of scientists who went against the prevailing paradigm and made advances in science. The super-famous book by Thomas Kuhn comes to mind: "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".
    Please note that I know Kuhn's ideas mostly from the philosophical point of view, not so much the "hard science" one.

    So I restate my question, as a lay person and in good faith, is there really not a lot of room for improvement?
    Best regards.

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