Regular Guest
Our 15 year old Carrier AC has failed yet again and I'm not going to fix it this time. We've gotten a few quotes and I've zeroed in on one from a small reputable dealer who sells Trane.
The choice I have to make is between the XB13 "standard efficiency" 13 SEER unit and the XR15 "high efficiency" 15 SEER unit. Both are four ton with single stage compressors. We're replacing both the compressor and the coil.
We're in Southern California so the AC typically gets used on and off during the summer and that's it. However, our electric rates are pretty high. The 15 SEER unit is 25% more expensive than the 13 SEER unit and the actual dollar amount isn't trivial. I'm thinking it's not worth it based on the payback. However, I'd very much like to get some feedback on that. It's also worth keeping in mind that our old Carrier was probably 10 SEER or less.
Thanks!
New Guest
Well the 15 SEER mathematically should use about 13% less energy than the 13 SEER, so depending on what % of your electricity bill your A/C is that may or may not be a substantial difference for you.
Also consider that with Trane the XR units have a better warranty than the XB unit. XR has 10 years on the entire condenser whereas the XB Unit has 10 years on the compressor and 5 years on everything else (If you register it that is). Check the Trane website for more info on that.
Global Moderator
Remember that few "15 SEER" units will get 15 SEER without a matched high efficiency blower motor inside. The XR15 is certainly one of them. You'll get 14 SEER which can save you a few bucks over 13.
The XR gives you a bit nicer unit than the XB13, namely some sound deading effords. The XB300 is a whole nuther story!
Regular Guest
Thanks for the feedback. I'll be keeping the current blower (and of course all the existing piping). Then again, I probably won't get 13 SEER out of the XB13 either. The warranty is longer on the XR15 but at 25% more cost I still don't think it's worth it.
The XB13 is a bit nosier but nothing we can't handle. I expect it'll be quieter than the Carrier was.
If there is nothing inherently bad with the XB13 unit I think I'll go that route.
Thanks again!
Professional Member*
Keep in mind an A/C unit has to run 7 minutes before it gets it's maximum efficiency. Oversized units with cycle off before you ever get past the first 7mins. Undersized units will get past the first 7 minutes a lot more often, but you risk it being a few degrees hotter in your house for a few hours on the days that exceed design conditions. When doing your manual J you could reduce the outside and/or increase the inside design temperature a trade off for lower power bills. If you're OK with 80 inside when it's 100 outside you can put in a smaller unit (that uses less power) than if you require 70 when it's 100 outside.
Global Moderator
You will get 13.00 from an XB13 and matching coil. Just when you try to get much higher than 14, it takes the efficient fan motor to do it.
Professional Member*
if the furnace is 15 years old i would replace it also ,get a furnace with a ecm motor. especialy if electric is high
Regular Guest
I can't think of any time the AC has run for less than seven minutes. When it's hot, it runs in something more like half hour cycles. For reference, hot here is 80's to low 90's in the extreme (we're on the coast). Correct me if I'm wrong but with both units being four ton (I couldn't find detailed specs like BTU's) they'll have the same cooling capacity, right?
The furnace is 15 years old but it works fine and I'm just not prepared to spend the money to replace it for the sake of increased efficiency. The payback period is just too long to justify it.
I'd say we run our AC for something like 30-60 total days a year. The furnace is used sparingly as well, maybe running for a few hours in the morning and a few more at night. The weather tends to be pretty mild here in San Diego.
Thanks again and if you have more info to share please do!
Professional Member*
4ton with a 90 degree design temp is either a really big or very poorly insulated house.
Regular Guest
The house is 2,700 square feet (two floors) with a concrete tile roof and stucco exterior. The insulation is average.
Regular Member
Not a pro, but I would consider more attic insulation and some caulking. We're at high 90's now in NW AR and my 4 ton dual fuel HP on an ~3700 sqft house with temp at 78 seems only to go into 2nd stage when it runs long in low stage and the timer kicks it up. Typically, I have a hard time getting the AC to run longer than 5-7 minutes. Sounds like my unit is over sized for cooling to me but no 3.5 ton unit was available and I guess 3 ton was too small.Originally Posted by OpenTrackRacer
Regular Guest
I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not upgrading to a larger AC unit or dissatisfied with the cooling ability of my current Carrier (when it worked). I'm simply replacing a defective air conditioner with a new one of the same cooling capacity.
Incidentally, when I run my AC the thermostat is usually set for something more like 72-74.
Regular Member
Referring to a previous post with which I agree: "4ton with a 90 degree design temp is either a really big or very poorly insulated house". When ever you replace HVAC you should reassess whether you can put in the "right" equipment. Pre-existing size does not mean correct size. You also said hat your electric is high. Well, one way to decrease it is to replace over sized equipment and to improve insulation.
My previous unit was the same size as the new and it appears over sized after some insulation upgrades and more efficient system. Just trying to be helpful.
Regular Guest
scrap the XB those are builder grade ACs.
go for either XR13 or XR15
also with certain coil/blower combo's you can use the XB14 and achieve higher than 15 SEER to qualify for tax credit
Professional Member
My dads home has a 2.5 ton Trane with XR15 outdoor unit. It runs awesome. And the air handler is very quiet. But see how much a outdoor unit with 2 stage compressor cost. You may save more in the long run. You can see in other brands like Carrier, Rheem, Lennox and York for a unit with 2 stage compressor. You should also check into getting a media filter box so you can use a 4" filter. That will give you cleaner return air for your unit and cleaner air for your home. Also see if you can get a Honeywell IAQ tstat or anything that will have dehumidification on demand. If you just need dehumidifying then the unit will run on a slower speed and help you save some money. Ideal would be to have 2 units in a 2 story home and setup two separate cooling zones.
Regular Guest
Sorry for the long delay in revisiting this thread. I just got back from my summer family vacation and need to get this in work.
The comment was made that the XB13 is a "Builder grade AC". That may be but how does that effect reliability and performance? I know the warranty difference but beyond that the XB and XR units seem to be very similar in overall design.
Thanks!
Professional Member*
You might want to get a quote on an XR13, they should be maybe 8% more in cost and are much quieter and in my opinion a slightly better unit with the slightly better warranty.
Regular Guest
No reason not to. Gonna call and ask right now.
Also, can you quantify what you mean by a "slightly better unit"? Do they use significantly different internal components?
Regular Guest
Okay, got the pricing. The XR13 is 12.5% more than the XB13.
I'm looking over Trane's advertising on both the XB and XR units. They match feature for feature (same compressor, same coil for example) except for the sound insulation on the compressor for the XB series.
With that in mind, can anyone give me a compelling reason to spend more on the XR?
Thanks!
Global Moderator
Warranty & sound deadening really. Same coil, compressor. Again, XB13 not XB300! The 300 is a sorry excuse for a Trane.
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