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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947
    One thing Standard will do is a load calc...

    I did sales for them for a short while and no job gets submitted for install without one...

    When I was in sales I often encountered folks who wanted me in-and-out quickly... to the point of asking "Whats the tape measure for, don't you know what size I need? Nobody else measured my house."

    No calc to me immediately eliminates a contractor.

  2. #15
    I am a one man shop in the metro area. My company name is Supreme Heating & Air Conditioning. It can be found in the Yellow Book yellow pages. I do a load calc. on every replacement.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    3,468
    Call Snelling Heating and Air. Ask for Joe in Sales.

    The price will be reasonable, and they sell/install/service a lot of customers in St Paul since the thirties. Load calcs are overrated in this part of the country but I won't go into that. Lennox and Trane are their brands. Go with extended warranty no matter what you buy now adays. China don't yet know how to make things that last. But they sure can produce a lot of them.

    Ap...lo is high price but decent installs. High pressure tho for extras.

    You want a good install, call Kevins Heating. He is an excellent installer and been on his own for a couple of years now in the northern suburbs. I was a screw chaser for him several years back and he is honest and trustworthy and I know several of his techs who are also top notch. He is a York dealer.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, MN
    Posts
    20
    I work all over the twin cities area, and on every furnace out there, installed by just about anybody. There are a lot of hacks, but there are numerous good companies also. Don't get excited about a heat loss/gain calc. I have put many furnaces in over the years and have done load calcs, I never found out anything by doing one that I didn't already know before I started. I have NEVER had a customer complain that the furnace or AC cannot keep up or short-cycles. If you're wondering what the installation will look like, ask the salesman if they have any pictures of previous jobs, I take pictures of most installs, and I'm sure others do as well. Two-stage furnaces are great, if it's not a complete abortion to pull wire, a two-stage stat is nice also, but not necessary. Strongly recommend Aprilaire filter systems, they work very well. I'm also a fan of Amana furnaces, stainless heat exchanger(s), nitride ignitor, 10 years parts and labor warranty, and the heat exchanger warranty is that if you're the origional owner of the furnace, and a heat exchanger fails, Amana will replace the entire furnace, not just the failed heat exchanger. A new furnace is better than a new heat exchanger with 20 year-old everything else.

    [Edited by dokktor on 10-24-2005 at 09:31 PM]

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    53
    dokktor, you're talking my language. I'd love to find a quality contractor who installs Amana products and Aprilaire air filters, and who also likes to put a 2-stage stat on a 2-stage furnace. Wow - what a concept. I've talked with 3 Amana dealers who don't like Aprilaire and don't like 2-stage stats - one contractor said they'd do them both if I wanted them too, but essentially said I'd be making a mistake. Any recommendations on Amana dealers who'll work in Mounds View?

    supremehvac, I'll look you up. Thanks for chiming in - do you know that you're a vanishing breed in the Twin Cities? Load calcs seem to be few and far between in this area. Are you licensed in Mounds View?

    peberth, I've heard so many times some variant of "based on their experience, this is the size furnace I will need to heat X square feet in this type of house." But then they recommend different furnace sizes! Just had a bid today that estimated a 60,000 BTU 92% furnace for my 1300 sq. ft. (foundation size) house (also has a full basement the same size). While this may be the right size, I have no way of confirming that, as others have recommended 70,000, 80,000, and 90,000 BTUs. Take your pick. I'll have to go back over my results from HVAC-Calc, but it seems to me that I was in the 61,000 range when I calc'd our house, which to me means that a 92% 60,000 may be too small, as it would have output BTU of around 55,200 BTU. My family won't want to get cold on those -25 nights. But maybe there's some fudge built into HVAC-Calc, and this contractor is right. How do we ever know who's word to believe? Frustrating...

    Also, I've had Action Heating and Air out to our house - he arrived with printed bids in hand, furnace and AC already sized, without ever seeing our house! When I asked him about it, he said he'd done so many in our area that he already knew what size he'd need. Problem is that we have all different sizes of homes in our area, and all different ages. Nice guy though, but I just didn't feel good about his approach.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    40

    Heating & Cooling Two?

    Have any of you pros had any dealings with this company. They are located out of Maple Grove and handle Bryant. Your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947

    Re: Heating & Cooling Two?

    Originally posted by acam
    Have any of you pros had any dealings with this company. They are located out of Maple Grove and handle Bryant. Your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
    Heating and Cooling Two? No effing way...

    LMAO about Snelling... we used to call them "The boys from Smelling..."

    Also LMAO about no load calcs... READ this post by TAS, he is correct to be concerned and confused...

    peberth, I've heard so many times some variant of "based on their experience, this is the size furnace I will need to heat X square feet in this type of house." But then they recommend different furnace sizes! Just had a bid today that estimated a 60,000 BTU 92% furnace for my 1300 sq. ft. (foundation size) house (also has a full basement the same size). While this may be the right size, I have no way of confirming that, as others have recommended 70,000, 80,000, and 90,000 BTUs. Take your pick. I'll have to go back over my results from HVAC-Calc, but it seems to me that I was in the 61,000 range when I calc'd our house, which to me means that a 92% 60,000 may be too small, as it would have output BTU of around 55,200 BTU. My family won't want to get cold on those -25 nights. But maybe there's some fudge built into HVAC-Calc, and this contractor is right. How do we ever know who's word to believe? Frustrating...

    Also, I've had Action Heating and Air out to our house - he arrived with printed bids in hand, furnace and AC already sized, without ever seeing our house! When I asked him about it, he said he'd done so many in our area that he already knew what size he'd need. Problem is that we have all different sizes of homes in our area, and all different ages. Nice guy though, but I just didn't feel good about his approach.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for everyone's commentary!

    Here are my concerns:

    1) I think everyone is in agreement that proper furnace sizing is imperative. However, it is obvious (from the above postings and my bids) that many experience professionals disagree about whether a load calc should be performed.

    2) In my limited experience, I had three HVAC contractors visit my house and the outcome yielded three different furnace size recommendations (60k, 70k, 80k). Each experience professional was confident in their recommendation.

    One individual on this site, and it has been implied by others, that they don't do load calcs because they never learn anything new. Is it possible that in my case, if each contractor would have done the calculation, that they would have yielded the same conflicting recommendations?

    This brings me back to my original topic. Can someone recommend a good contractor in the Twin Cities?

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    40

    No effing way??

    So what is the problem with heating & cooling two? My in-laws are considering them for a replacing their furnace & AC.

  10. #23
    Some companys don't do load calcs because they are set on installing one particular brand. That brand only comes in certain sizes as far as btuh are concerned. For example if the models for that brand are 45, 70, 100, and 125 then they will figure 45 is to small 100 is to big, looks like you get a 70 for your house.

    I think it is best to do a load calc then choose a brand based on the best buth output to fit that house. But for some reason people seem to get stuck on the brand thing. Another reason to do the load calc is that it is a must for balancing the system when you have finished. But then again... what contractor is going to spend the time to balance the system after the install.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, MN
    Posts
    20
    supremehvac you do have a point, one of the reasons I usually don't do a heatloss/gain on a house is because we basically carry four sizes of furnaces, 45, 70, 90, and 110. I am interested to know what the difference would be if a house is calculated for 60,000 and a 70,000 is installed, you can't be saying the furnace will prematurely fail or that there will be other underlying issues.

    also, someone asked about heating and cooling two. All the equipment in my house was installed by them when new (only 3 years old). I am pretty impressed by the majority of their work. I have never had to have them come out to perform service work though either, and I have never heard how they are with their retro-fit. Just wanted to let homeowners know that when they are looking for a contractor to keep that in mind, if I have a problem how soon can they come out? Will they have the parts on their truck? Will they stand behind their work and their product?

  12. #25
    Originally posted by dokktor
    I am interested to know what the difference would be if a house is calculated for 60,000 and a 70,000 is installed, you can't be saying the furnace will prematurely fail or that there will be other underlying issues.
    No I'm not saying that. However, the output of the new furnace should never be more than 25% of the heat loss.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    St Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    3,468

    Re: Re: Heating & Cooling Two?

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by hvac_czar
    [B]
    Originally posted by acam
    Have any of you pros had any dealings with this company. They are located out of xxxx xxx and handle Xxxxx. Your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
    LMAO about Snelling... we used to call them "The boys from Smelling..."


    [From your profile you are laughing thru your ass from a long way away. Is that MA in your profile Massachusettes? Never been there. Maybe one day.

    Did you get irritated when Snelling locked the boys out rather than continue Union? That was before my time in HVAC but if Phil wanted to go that route, I guess he had the right to do it. I did however, work with them for a time after that with the installers and found them to be quite professional. Couple of lead men with many years of experience on the two crews that were going when I was there. During the slow times Phil did his best to keep the techs working. That's when I would work with the installers, mostly fan coils in attics of three story mansions with boilers during late winter, early spring.

    And, he did have a couple of top notch techs also. One was a whiz at controls old and new. I've lost touch with most there now but now my area of work will overlap theirs. And Kevin got a couple of the techs too I hear.

    "Just wanted to let homeowners know that when they are looking for a contractor to keep that in mind, if I have a problem how soon can they come out? Will they have the parts on their truck? Will they stand behind their work and their product?"

    /To the above quote from a responder here, I can say that the answer to this is yes Snelling does 24 hr service, yes they have well stocked trucks, and they do stand behind their work. Do they do a load calc on every job? I don't know, you will have to ask Joe.

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