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Thread: 13 SEER Goodman

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Originally posted by jcswaim
    Thank you for your advise. As for the duct work, what he suggests is to add some more returns and keep the rest the same. They do suggest upgrading to R8. Does that make sense?

    Mark is trying to be nice.


    It's very unlikely your new system will perform correctly on the old duct system,due to increasing the size,which likely isn't needed .


    Read some posts here and think about it before you spend the money.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Austin, Texas
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    45
    Goodman / Amana are the only mnufactures that i know of that offer lifetime warranty on their compressor on 13 seer and above

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    68,981
    Hey Mark! you want to back up your claim that a Goodman 4 ton is the same capacity as another brands 3.5 ton? This crap you are spewing is getting old. There is one 5 ton system that you have a ligitimate gripe about, and that is covered by a heftier 5 ton that is available.

    Your broken record chanting of innacurate information really makes you sound petty and not very well informed.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Seabeck, WA
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    1,870
    I'd get a heat pump if I were you.
    My opinion after 16 years in the trade.
    Live for yourself and ask no one to live for you.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    Originally posted by RoBoTeq
    Hey Mark! you want to back up your claim that a Goodman 4 ton is the same capacity as another brands 3.5 ton? This crap you are spewing is getting old. There is one 5 ton system that you have a ligitimate gripe about, and that is covered by a heftier 5 ton that is available.

    Your broken record chanting of innacurate information really makes you sound petty and not very well informed.
    Robo, carefully reread my reply to his post. You will find that I said "similar" capacity. I wasn't bashing Goodman at all, I thought I was clear that it all depends on the equipment matchups.

    Since you wanted to go down this road with me, here you go.

    I actually picked the better performing of the 2 "13 SEER heat pumps" listed on Goodman's web site.


    I won't have the data for the new Trane XR13 and XR14 for a couple of weeks, here are some of a 3.5 ton Trane XL14i heat pump with varrious air handlers.


    When you toss in the fact that the OP's new "4 ton" system is being installed on a duct system that was on a 3 ton system, and that the origonal duct systems in his part of town were generally not very good for the size of equipment that was there to begin with, those numbers will certainly be significantly lower.
    There was already a long thread in the pro forum illistrating the differences in the blower performance, so I'll leave that alone.

    The couple of times I have gotten hold of the performance data for more severe conditions than the ARI rating conditions, the performance of the Goodman system dropped off much faster than the system I was compairing it too.

    It isn't very often that I will say much negative about a manufacturer, and I certainly don't bash. When I do have something bad to say, you can bet I can back it up.

    If you read my "negative" posts, you will see that most of my beef is with idiot contractors that don't match the equipment properly.

    Just for the record, Trane makes some whole product lines that we don't sell because of performance and quality issues with those products.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 10-14-2005 at 01:56 AM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #19
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    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    When you get away from heat pumps to straight AC, many of the >130 equipment combinations with the "3.5 ton" Trane XL14i have higher total and sensable capacity, with similar or better senable/latent ratios than ANY of the equipment matchups that Goodman has listed for thier "4 ton" 14 SEER condensor.

    Not bashing, just a statement of fact that illistrates the importance of Manual S type equipment selection.

    Ok, I will bash one thing about Goodman equipment. Thier 5 ton systems, all of them on thier web site, are weak. Goodman still does not have one single equipment matchup that will handle a >39k BTUh cooling load, wich is a fairly common requirement in my area. Lots homes around here with >39k BTUH load at our design conditions that are served by a single system, and a lot of homeowners that don't want to go with 2 systems.
    Trane has several matchups that will handle >39k BTUH with a single system at our design conditions, and still have a great sensable/latent ratio.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 10-14-2005 at 02:25 AM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #20
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    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    Here is the cheeper 4 ton Goodman 13 SEER HP.


    And the 3.5 ton Trane XR12.



    Wish I had the data for the new XR13 and XR14 products, but gota wait a couple more weeks yet.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Gone
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    5,340
    Originally posted by jcswaim
    got approved for 5,000. The guy told me that he will show me how to replace it and even help me for shiner bock.
    Yeah, sure looks to me like that Goodman contractor is working for beer money only if you ask me.

    Contractor: Why yes mam, if you supply all the Shiner Bock we can drink today, why we will have all this thrown in faster than you can put makeup on your face.

    Where do they go to get their dealers from, the local Alcoholics Anonymous meetings every week?


  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
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    By increasing the Btuh tonnage from 3-ton to 4-ton, the contractor could be introducing the worst possible inefficient performance scenario.

    If you size the ductwork to keep the static pressure low and the airflow and heatload high on the indoor coil, in the cooling mode, you could perhaps have stayed with the 3-ton system. You can always reduce air infiltration and increase insulation to get down to a legitimate 3-ton capacity level.

    http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...g_systems.html

    http://www.hersraters.com/

    http://www.natresnet.org/

    Spend a little to save a lot on energy costs!

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10
    Got my Goodman installed. It is a really sturdy looking system. I am impressed with this part. As for how good of a system it is, I guess time will tell. Works fine so far. Talked with the Sales rep. and his the installer. The installer even called his boss to check the duct size and said is was fine. The sales rep. still wants to help me install new duct when I buy all the new duct. He will help and teach me to install the duct for Shiner Bock, not the system. He assures me to buy the same duct size that is already in the house. I have three returns now, he added one. He does suggests that I add another or expand one. He told me that from day one. I sure hope everything was done correctly. Seems like a great and sincere guy. I will let you all know any changes in status.

  11. #24
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    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    If you have a digital camera, snap some pictures and post them here.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
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    Fort Worth, TX is a fairly dry climate, summer design 100 dry bulb 75 wet bulb or around 31% Relative Humidity.

    One way you could keep the run-cycles and run intervals long enough would be to get a room TH that you can set the on/off differential by several degrees. Let's say, kick-on at 78 kick-off at 75 or even 74 as the linked chart illustrates.

    If you have ceiling fans or other 20" fans to keep the 30% RH dry air moving you should be comfortable even at 80 to 74-F temperature variation differential. (Only you will know that)

    http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...tent-heat.html

    If you want efficient operation, the thing you do not want is short-cycling!

    There is nothing wrong with Goodman equipment, if properly installed it should provide good service. As far as the Btuh varation between equipment ratings, it is rather meaningless, because you can do things to bring the heat-gain in line with the Btuh capacity of the equipment. Get the ductwork done right as it will improve its efficiency of operation! Darrell

    [Edited by udarrell on 10-15-2005 at 09:29 AM]

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10
    How can you tell or test a system to see if it short cycles?

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