1. Professional Member
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Originally posted by Irascible
Originally posted by kjones
Been doing some research/studying, and came across this nugget on my local electric company'a website:
Which utility's website would that be? I'd be grateful for a link.
That is the electric company speaking about gas appliances

2. Grumpy Old Man
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90% will never pay for the difference over the 80%.
10%?

Using his figures \$950 for heating cost.
(estimating at \$0.01/cf nat, \$10 per MBtu)

That would be 95 MBtu.

95 MBtu at 80% EFF would be roughly 76 MBtu transferred into home.
In order to get that same output with a 90% it would only take 84.5 MBtu or \$845 saving him \$105 per year if the price of fuel DOESN'T rise!

\$105 savings for 10 years is \$1050 If you don't want the extra savings, I'll take it.

Actual Btu output of the 95% furnace over the 80% furnace is very little.
15% is not that much? I bet you would be apposed if the government wanted to raise your taxes by 15%!

100 K at 95% Output 95 K (\$1.00 x 95 = 95 cents)
100 K at 80% Output 80 K (\$1.00 x 80 = 80 cents)

15 K of additional heat would be a savings of 15 cents per hour of run time (\$950 - 800 = \$150 per year!)

** All the data is estimated off of the following data... Nat, .01 cents/cf, 1000 Btu/cf. Your gas rates and content will vary (and are raising TREMENDOUSLY)

3. Professional Member*
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Originally posted by jacob perkins
That is the electric company speaking about gas appliances
Shazaam! All this time I thought it was the gas company talking about electric appliances. Thanks for clearing that up.

4. Grumpy Old Man
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Originally posted by Irascible
But you know as well as I that 90+ furnaces throw plenty of so called technicians off. And in terms of reliability, any time you add a water circuit to an appliance you end up with more failures.
Now lets be fair and not counter the units reliability by a (non-competent) techs stand point.

Compare Apples vs Apples, Oranges vs Oranges.

If the two machines were installed by the same tech, there would be no difference in the reliability of the two units.

Like anything else if PROPERLY installed & maintained, the additional water line is damn near NEVER an issue.

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Originally posted by jultzya
the additional water line is damn near NEVER an issue.
That's not my experience. But experience does not make for proven fact. So I can't say you're right or wrong with any authority. What we need is reliable statistics regarding the reliability of the two types of furnaces. I'll change my view in a heartbeat if such data shows my view to be wrong.

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Originally posted by jultzya
90% will never pay for the difference over the 80%.
10%?

Using his figures \$950 for heating cost.
(estimating at \$0.01/cf nat, \$10 per MBtu)

That would be 95 MBtu.

95 MBtu at 80% EFF would be roughly 76 MBtu transferred into home.
In order to get that same output with a 90% it would only take 84.5 MBtu or \$845 saving him \$105 per year if the price of fuel DOESN'T rise!

\$105 savings for 10 years is \$1050 If you don't want the extra savings, I'll take it.

Actual Btu output of the 95% furnace over the 80% furnace is very little.
15% is not that much? I bet you would be apposed if the government wanted to raise your taxes by 15%!

100 K at 95% Output 95 K (\$1.00 x 95 = 95 cents)
100 K at 80% Output 80 K (\$1.00 x 80 = 80 cents)

15 K of additional heat would be a savings of 15 cents per hour of run time (\$950 - 800 = \$150 per year!)

** All the data is estimated off of the following data... Nat, .01 cents/cf, 1000 Btu/cf. Your gas rates and content will vary (and are raising TREMENDOUSLY)
I am sorry you went to all this trouble, but you can crumble it up and throw it away. This information is inaccurate. You do not get actual 95% or 80% output at the ducts into the home or business, and that is actual true BTU's into the envelope.

7. Grumpy Old Man
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I am sorry you went to all this trouble, but you can crumble it up and throw it away. This information is inaccurate. You do not get actual 95% or 80% output at the ducts into the home or business, and that is actual true BTU's into the envelope.
You better explain this to the people that rate the EFFICIENCIES!

If a 95 % doesn't transfer more heat to the structure, how is the hell can it vent with PLASTIC pipe?!?!

Because it is lowering the vent temps be transferring more heat into the structure!

If it wasn't, it would have to be vented with metal piping like the rest of the 60-80% units!

Have you ever looked at the rating plates? They will contradict what you stated also!

8. You tell em damit!!

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Boy. Sure looks like class is going to be long tonight. I wish they would pay us teachers more. We certainly deserve it, being we have to keep repeating ourselves to the clowns in the classroom.

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Jultzya:

What meaning do you get from it?

I am also coming up on 2000 posts. I might have to stop and write a big article or something of importance.

Should I address the nation with a State of the Union speech?

11. I really don't think you have the firepower against Jultzya.

I'm feeling a burial on this one.

Especially when you call him out!!

12. And NO I'm not suckin up.....He knows his ****!!! Period!!

13. Grumpy Old Man
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Sure looks like class is going to be long tonight. I wish they would pay us teachers more. We certainly deserve it, being we have to keep repeating ourselves to the clowns in the classroom.
Ok, below is the last sentence.

You do not get actual 95% or 80% output at the ducts into the home or business, and that is actual true BTU's into the envelope.
So if the 80-95% outout is not true Btus into the envolope, WHERE is it going?

Cause it sure as hell isn't going out the chimney!

If you are teaching, PLEASE retire!

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