Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Now If you have a customer that really doesnt want a setback thermostat being his family is coming and going at all hours with college and changing shifts for both husband and wife, What advantage would you have of putting in a 2 stage thermostat. I know everyone claims that its better using the two stage then timed but then if you only need high fire if it cant keep up in low fire. I understand that it would be instant when the second stage bulb calls but being its the same temperature all the time and the first stage is closer to the right size for the heat loss for the house, if it will ever really go to second stage. Guess I will look around a little more at 2- stage non programable thermostats. Funny thing is this house had a 6 wire thermostat wire but 99 % dont and most of the houses around here are finished basements and a real pain going to the attick without going exposed through a closet. I just find too many others using the timer and saying that its not a problem. So there you set trying to convince the homeowner that your right doing it with a 2- stage stat. There big question is that if its not right why would they make it with a timer then? Wellllllll , Dam I hate spending hours explaining some of this stuff when there just shopping price lol.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    240
    I have actually closed deals because I told the customer I wouldn't install a 2 stage furnace with out a 2 stage stat. When the other guy said that was the way to do it. I just explain to them that they are not really getting the comfort they are paying extra for with out it. Even if that means a drywall repair in their basement ceiling.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,603
    If you use the tomer, it can go to second stage for a minute or 2 and then cycle off, not giving you the extended rune time that a 2 stage should have.

    A timer can't sense temp, so if it needs to go to second stage quicker, they're stuck till it times out.

    If first stage is already close to the heat load, then using the timer makes even less sense.
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  4. #4
    2 stage 2 stage 2 stage for a 2 stage FURNACE!!

    Otherwise they are losing COMFORT!

    If they want a single stage stat, install a single stage unit! Becuase if they are not interested in comfort, why spend the extra money for the 2 stage unit?

    As far as wiring, there are ways around that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rochester, MN
    Posts
    5,305
    Honeywell does make a non-program 2-stage t-stat...

    I agree with the other guys.. Do them a favor, get a two stage t-stat in the home..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bartlett, IL
    Posts
    6,619
    Originally posted by jultzya

    As far as wiring, there are ways around that.
    Explain this one please...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    ya ....I would like to hear that one too. Hope your not saying dont sell them air conditioning lol

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,646
    Honeywell does in fact make a non-programable, it is a vision-pro without the program installed. There is an option when setting it up!
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    1,634
    Keep it simple...the VisionPRO stats let you convert them to non-programmable operation in the configs. A good stat is essential....after all, it's the only part of the HVAC system that the homeowner (or home moaner) deals with, so this is where the impression of quality (or lack thereof) matters. Why cripple a 2-stage system with single stage stat? Chances are that you sold them a 2-stage system for comfort reasons, possibly efficiency reasons, both which can't readily be done when he furnace has no input from its environment other than on/off.

    As far as making up for not having enough wires, there are several devices out there, one which comes to mind is the add-a-wire (see link at bottom of post), which allows you go get two inputs from a single wire. You're not going to be able to magically turn 2 wires into 8, but it will give you an extra 2-4 wires depending on what's available.

    http://www.commercial.carrier.com/co..._description/0,3059,CLI1_DIV12_ETI434_PRD176,00.html?SMSESSION=N O

  10. #10
    Originally posted by 2hot2coolme
    Originally posted by jultzya

    As far as wiring, there are ways around that.
    Explain this one please...
    Well, as tpa stated there is this product.

    Then you can always mount the VivionPro in a location where you can run new wiring to. Then mount the remote (indoor sensor) at the original location using the existing wiring. Connect the oppropiate wiring at the furance.

    Wireless stats is another solution.

    Yet another solution is here.

    Want more options?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bartlett, IL
    Posts
    6,619
    Originally posted by jultzya
    Originally posted by 2hot2coolme
    Originally posted by jultzya

    As far as wiring, there are ways around that.
    Explain this one please...
    Well, as tpa stated there is this product.

    Then you can always mount the VivionPro in a location where you can run new wiring to. Then mount the remote (indoor sensor) at the original location using the existing wiring. Connect the oppropiate wiring at the furance.

    Wireless stats is another solution.



    Yet another solution is here.

    Want more options?
    Never heard of add a wire, interesting.

    The other options I know about but can be pricey.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,042
    The justification for the homeowner needs to be simple, but giving the reason "it's for comfort" is too simple to justify the two stage stat.

    The answer is that they are buying a two stage furnace because they want it to run on low stage as much as possible, avoiding unnecessary on and off cycling and unnecessary use of high stage. This is true regardless of whether you are using a programmable or nonprogrammable stat.

    With a timer, cycles will frequently go like this:
    Start, run 12 minutes on low, run six on high, stop.
    With a two stage stat, the furnace can keep running on low even to the point where it's running continuously on low. Only when running continuously on low isn't enough will it switch to high.

    It could also look like this:
    Start, run 12 minutes on low, 30 on high, stop.
    A two stage stat could just run constantly on low and get you the same output. Steadier temperatures, quieter operation, and in practice a little better efficiency.

    If you increase the thermostat setting manually, a timer will make you wait X minutes before it will switch to high. With a good stat it could switch to high immediately to hurry up and respond to your request, then switch back to low to maintain the setpoint when it covered that temperature difference.

    Timer systems with a single stage stat are incapable of switching from high to low heat. All they know is when the call for heat is satisfied, and at that point you're always going to cycle off completely. Systems that adaptively adjust how long to stay on low fire based on previous heating cycles can do a little better than the fixed timers, true. But say if it decides from previous cycles that it should stay on low fire for 45 minutes before switching to high. What happens if you suddenly feel cold and want to bump up the setpoint? You're not going to get any real progress toward your new setpoint for 45 minutes.

    I bet these cases could be illustrated really well with a handout that had some simple graphs on it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    248
    Great post wyounger!

    That pretty much says it all. I won't go all through it again (see my previous posts from about 2 years ago). But, essentially I had a single stage stat before I had a 2 stage and I can attest to the big difference a 2 stage stat makes.

    If you have 2 stage equipment, get a 2 stage stat. Period.

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