House smells like goat ranch...

[mdbrewer]

Thanks, in advance, for bearing with this long post. I moved into an old (new for me) house recently with pretty ugly air quality. I thought the cause of the smell was just that the house was dirty and sitting empty for a long time. A couple of months later and a lot of cleaning, including having the ducts cleaned, the house still smells bad--kind of like a mix of old house/sheep farm/gas leak (although there is no gas leak.) I've tried Ozone and it doesn't help at all.

The house seems to smell a lot better when the air has been running a lot. When the air is on, the the air coming out of the vents smells fresh. When the air is off but the fan is on, the air coming out of the vents smells funky. The basement is partially finished and it is humid (~70% RH) but doesn't smell at all mildewey or moldy. I just started to run a dehumidifier. The AC seems oversized to me--5 ton and the house is only 1900 SF. It doesn't take long to cool down and then the AC shuts off. The house was built in '62 and has galvanized ducts with partially lined returns. There appear to remnants of a radiant heat system in the basement.

And now my question. Does this sound like an AC/Dehimidification problem that can be solved? My big worry is that I spend a lot of money rectifying the oversized AC and adding a good dehimidifier and still end up with a house that smells like a goat ranch.

Thanks, again, for any help.

[teddy bear]

70% RH brings out many odors. Urine in carpeting and mold are the most noticable. Get the %RH to <50%Rh and operate the fan in "on" mode. Add 50-100 cfm of fresh air. Clean all damp corners. Odor should slowly decrease. You will need a very good dehu. Dehus are available that ventilate with fresh air and provide <50%RH. Crawlspaces and wall cavities with mouse/rat dropping or cats urinating in the basement are common sources. Check out Ultra-Aire for ventilating dehus. TB

[mdbrewer]

tb, thanks for the reply,

I've been looking at the Santa Fe/Ultra-Aire as a possible solution. It's kind of my reason for posting here--to verify my thinking that it is a viable solution.

Can I purchase an Ultra-Aire and install myself? Or is there another product that I could duct into the Santa Fe to add the 50-100 cfm of fresh/filtered air to the Santa Fe.

Will a Santa Fe/Ultra-Aire in the basement dehimidify the whole house even if the AC is oversized?

[tonys]

if there's mold...you've got some tough sledding ahead of you.

then again, you could always knock it down.
did somebody say 'insurance job'...anyone...Bueller...anyone?

[tcat007]

Goat ranch... Dirty Sock bin... same thing here, I can't get rid of it (for 10 years now). Smells "OK" when compressor is on, really bad when fan is running (even during the 90 second ramp up period). I believe it's a property of the AC coil in a basement. My house is 100% finish out on the bottom floor and only one wall is what I would call a basement, but the floor is ceramic tile. I think the "basement air" somehow contaminates the coil, and the smell never goes away. My supply plenum is 3 stories, straight up, A/C at bottom. All the cold air in the ducts "settles" in the unit and keeps it very cold and wet. My filter often feels damp, although have not seen mold growth on it or in the unit.

I've been through 3 A/C units in 10 years, 2 new. Both had the same problem within 3 months of install date. The last unit is a Carrier 2 speed, and I also have a Sante Fe and keep the house at 50%RH. I don't run the 50CFM make up air full time, it gets much worse when I do. Mold grows easily inside the Sante Fe, must be cleaned at least yearly. I can not find any damp spots anywhere. I have given up, until a proven technology appears. (UV, coil coating, photo-whatever, Oust for coils...???)

[mdbrewer]

tc,

10 years? Not the encouraging "yes, a good dehimidifier will fix your problem" answer I was looking for.

The funny thing is I can smell mold a mile away and this doesn't smell like mold, but the smell is definitely a function of the humidity and the AC running/fan running.

[RoBoTeq]

You guys need to talk to Diceman. He is this forum'f formost expert on anything that has to do with goats.

[teddy bear]

Yes, mold can grow in dehumidifiers and a/c air handlers if allowed to stand with water loaded coils. To avoid this problem, you must dry the coil and ducts a couple hours everyday. We have not documented mold growing in a air handle or dehumidifier that gets to dryout a couple hours everyday. We suggest operating the fan continuously on the dehumidifier if mold is of concern. This slowly dries all the coil and connected ducts. Mold needs continuous high humidity to reproduce. TB

[tcat007]

TB, I know you like the idea of the dehumidifier fan running full time, but I find it actually makes mine wetter and it never dries out. It brings in more humid air, causing it to cycle every 30-60 minutes (rather than every 8-10 hours). So with the fan on, the compressor is almost constantly running, with it off it kicks on 2 or 3 times a day. I think it has a better chance of drying out in 6 hours (fan off) than in 30 minutes (fan on).

I guess what I need is an outdoor damper that shuts outside intake, and a timer that kicks the fan on while shutting the damper, for maybe an hour a day. Any off the shelf products to do this?

[coolwhip]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
You guys need to talk to Diceman. He is this forum'f formost expert on anything that has to do with goats.

I new that was coming. LOL

[John Walker]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
You guys need to talk to Diceman. He is this forum'f formost expert on anything that has to do with goats.

I new that was coming. LOL [/B]

And call roboteq then if you want to know how to get your money's worth at an all you can eat buffet.

[mdbrewer]

look at:
http://www.acdirect.com/shop/index.p...on=item&id=791
They claim you put this light in with your ac coil and it will kill mold & other stuff. It's not super-expensive, may be worth a shot.

[bigtime]

I would suggest sealing supply and return ducts wtih mastic. If they are not sealed you will get basement air pulled into the living space. It aslo sounds like you unit is fairly well oversized. It is hard to say that a correctly sized unit would make you funky smell go away, but it can easily be said the smaller unit would dehumidify better. I would definately seal the ducts as this is not expensive and should help.

[tcat007]

Not sure if the last reply was to original poster or me... but my ducts are well sealed. My unit is 3 Ton in a 2400 ft. house, not oversized. Have Sante Fe in "basement" (which is only 25% undergound). 75% of return (and unit) is on bottom floor "basement". Return air is at 50% RH.

I've had the fan on "on" for the past week or two. Temperture here has been going up and down, so heat comes on for a few days, then cool comes on for a few. Smell only happens when the cool comes on, usually at the end of the cycle with the fan is still running. I usually keep the fan off in the summer (to help prevent this odor).

I believe coil coating is the only solution. I just need to decide if I can live with the odor or not (since the unit is only 12 years old with a 10 year warrantee).

[bigtime]

I was replying to the other person. I have since read your story and have a few suggestions. Make sure your coil is clean. You can buy a coil cleaner with a citrus odor that is in an arosal can. This stuff is sprayed on the coil with the unit running. You may be able to spray this stuff on every few weeks and make an improvement. Make sure that the drain pan is sloped and no water is standing in the pan.

Make sure you have enough filter area to support a high quality filter. Merv 8 or so. Mold has to have water and food to grow. If you can keep stuff from getting on the coil this should help.

[mdbrewer]

A little follow up info. We've had a nice run of beautiful days with low humidity and little need to run the AC and the house smells fine. When the air does come on the house smells funky again.

bigtime--I think you're right--the returns are a big part of the problem. There are a lot of panned/joist returns with giant holes in them in the basement plus the main return that serves the upstairs runs through a wall connected to the garage and there are nail holes and cracks that have been sucking in garage air for many years. So basically I have a finished basement that's been humid for a while supplying most of the air for the massively oversized AC. Why did I pay an inspector $300?

[mdbrewer]

Another question...Since it appears that part of the solution to this problem is sealing the returns and the returns are mostly panned/joist ducts, what is the BEST way to do it. The reason I say best is because I'll be taking each room down to the studs so I'd like to do it right at that time. I was thinking fully sealed vertical risers and the same type of ducts running horozontally in the joists.

[tonys]

that one, and stop mess'n around with Goats...

[teddy bear]

Originally posted by mdbrewer
A little follow up info. We've had a nice run of beautiful days with low humidity and little need to run the AC and the house smells fine. When the air does come on the house smells funky again.
So basically I have a finished basement that's been humid for a while supplying most of the air for the massively oversized AC.

Basement air will mix with the home regardless because of small duct leaks (summer) and the stack effect(winter). In addition to daily drying of the coil/ducts, suggest maintaining <50%RH in the basement during the summer. Days of high humidity grows many bioligicals that produces assorted odors.

Sorry I missed your question about buying dehus. It must have been a stretch of time where I tried to stop selling dehus. Ultra-Aire is available only through A/C contractors and distribution. Santa Fe is available from many places including a/c contractors. You can install the Santa Fe your self. Fresh air canbe added to the SF with a duct kit. Keeping the basement <50%RH will impact the entire home. For absolute control, suggest using the Ultra-Aire with remote RH control and distributing the dry air through the a/c duct connections. The dry air will keep the ducts/coil dry when a/c not cooling. A relapsed dehu peddler, TB.

[on call]

I don't understand why running the fan without cooling causes the bad smell if it is fact caused by contamination of the coil or ducts. One poster even went on to say that the smell was prevelent only during the 90 second fan run time after cooling. The contamination is there regardless of the cooling mode. Wouldn't there be an odor in the air handler when the unit is off if the smell is indeed coming from the coil? I'm just trying to learn about this, so please excuse my ignorance.