Freus Air Conditioner

[tboy]

Does anyone have any experiences, good or bad, with the Freus (evaporatively cooled) condensing unit? If someone can shed some light in this regard, I would be greatly appreciative. Thank you in advance!

[aircooled53]

I had some dealings with the AC2 that they took from a company in El Paso,Tx. I tried to get pumps and switches for the upgrade on a system that was supposed to be warrantied for 15 years and was put through alot of run around and finally we changed out the system. Bad part about it , this was on (1) of our builder's personal home and it didn't go well. He was pleased with the new American Standard we installed in it's place....

Be careful of water cooled condensers they require alot of maintenance and if the water feeding it is not filtered some times this will cause alot of problems..

Just my opinion' I could be wrong...

[tboy]

thanks a bunch. i live in the deep south and haven't been able to find much about this system. in fact, there are no dealers or distributors of this product in my state.

thanks, again!

[Irascible]

Ice machines make for a good comparison. They have a refrigerant circuit, an electrical circuit and a water circuit. Guess which circuit can be twice as much trouble as the other two combined. The Freus has the exact same three circuits.

I'm not suggesting you do this. But I have seen air cooled condensers go a decade or more with no maintenance and work just fine anyway. That would never happen with a Freus. While it could save you money in the long term in the right climate if everything went right, it would be a long term and everything would have to go right.

[mizearella]

Irascible is right on with his suggestions. I thought about putting a 5 ton freus system on my own house. Thought hard & long about it. Bottom line is the unit is real efficient (up to 18 seer). But it's like having a swamp cooler on your house. Tooooo much maintenance to keep it in peak operational condition. Plus dealing with FREUS is major pain in the a@@.

Most of my contractor buds just rip em out & install conventional equipment.

[tboy]

Thanks, mizearella and irascible. I'm beginning to get the impression that while the energy savings and conservation aspects of Freus are appealing, it'll be more trouble and more expensive in the long run.

Thanks for your responses!

[jacob perkins]

I do know that the type of system works much better in dry climates,and is not seen often in humid ones.Perhaps that is why there are no dealers there.

[modern1]

So, could ya enlighten me on what the humidity has to do with
how well a evaporatively cooled Freus unit does its job?
If a unit is desined to use water spraying over the condenser coil etc. thats 100% humidity aye

[jacob perkins]

condenser water is cooled by evaporation.
dryer climate means more and faster evaporation...which ultimately translates to more capacity ( or less power consumption.)

as I recall,this guy was in south lousianna and was wanting 10 tons or more for an antique house.

didnt sound to me like good idea to me.

[modern1]

In the Freus units, The small amount of water that evaporates is negligable at best. It use's water to cool the condenser coil and does it very effectively. I can't see where the relative humidity of the outside air will affect the design conditions.I have installed several here in the Corpus Christi area with no problems relating to high humidity.
The spray heads in a Freus Unit spray directly onto
the condenser coil and of course the temperature of the coil will cause evaporation. Believe me, These Units are used in the Desert areas of Texas, Arizona and Nevada. As well as in the Coastal areas of Texas and all over Florida. They are ARI rated and do one hell of a job.
Most dealers and contractors are afraid of everything that they know nothing about.

[smngmu]

I have one on my house.It's been in three years.The only maintenance that's been done is to put CLR in it about every 6 months.I live in Las Vegas,Nevada and the water sucks.I put two capfulls of CLR in and let it go.As long as the flush pump drain is actually put outside the unit,it pretty much cleans itself.I've serviced many that were not setup right or charged right and it will lead to problems.Yes,alot of contractors don't like them but having worked on dozens of them,I love them.

[Irascible]

Originally posted by modern1
Most dealers and contractors are afraid of everything that they know nothing about.

True enough. But as for me I was commenting on what I do know. A unit that relies on a swamp cooler like environment is going to need more attention than an air to air unit. And there's going to be accelerated degradation. I could be wrong of course. But I'd be surprised if these things last 15 years.

With air to air at over 20 SEER now, I just don't get what need the Freus is filling. Please educate me.

[modern1]

Ok.. here we go. Seer ratings are based at 82f, air cooled units efficiency degrades as the temperature outside rises.
Making motors and compressors run hotter consuming more electricity. Heat also accelerates the breakdown of components in an air cooled unit. And the hotter your motors and compressors get, the more electricity they consume, and tis is proven.
Your right, Water cooled "freus" aint for the masses, They do require more maintenance ;-) Which is great for service companies. I love selling the bi annual service contracts, and
the required maintenance is a plus, you know what parts to take and when.
The 15 year warranty is on the fiberglass cabinet dude.
Also, when you have a unit built with this kind of quality, they are worth it. Here in Corpus Christi, Texas Units corrode out here quickly, way before a 10 year comp warranty is expired. These units make it worthwhile to put in a compressor, or a condenser coil in the event it pukes.

[modern1]

By the way, I am installing my 3.5 ton Freus in the morning, I got the lineset all wrapped and run, it was hot as hell in the Attic this afternoon. I also ran the 1/4 inch water supply line to the conser location this after noon and its ready.
I am upgrading from a 2.5 ton unit to a 3.5 ton unit as i completed my home theater and need another ton to cool it.
Ripping out a Rheem rbha pos air handler, and an older heil condenser.
The new freus 3.5 ton unit has less rla than the 2.5 ton heil, crazy huh.
The new air handler is a Tempstar with a slow bleed expansion valve and should give me a "seer" rating around 23 or 24 if the math is right, but heck when its 98f for months on end here, the seer dont matter. Because these Units dont lose their efficiency as the temps rise.
I will post some pics after i am done..

[Irascible]

Not a bad pitch modern. If I lived in Texas I might even be a believer. Climatic differences are important. In these parts a Freus would make zero sense. Out there... maybe.

[modern1]

;-) less consumption saves anywhere.
But ya'll dont bake quite as bad as we do here huh.
feels like temps here the past week have been 108 to 110 or something like that! Heck, my brain is fried from attic heat this week. lol

[watercop]

I Googled Freus last night and read an article claiming that the Texas AG was seeking to shut down a company the article said manufactured Luxaire and Freus brands.

The article said that the AG alleged fraud and deceptive practices including falsely affixing UL listed decals as well as installing oversized condensers, oversized such that owners' circuit breakers tripped.

I find it odd that the supposed mfg also does installs, and I didn't recognize the sourse of the article, so I can't guage its truthfulness.

[jacob perkins]

(havent bothered to look up Fruse)
I was thinking of water cooled condenser...but the principles are the same
the water must be recycled or wasted, I dont know.

I contend that the relative humidity will have some effect,maybe not as much I want to believe (or can comprehend?)

more about these systems,please-is there any air over the outdoor coil?

lets plug in some numbers here and see what's what.

typical characteristic temps:
75 degree temp, 99% humidity - 12:01 A.M.
99 degree temp, 75% humidity - 2:00 P.M.

[modern1]

Well now, this is an interesting turn of events. Sh*t, Guess tomorrow I will be making some calls.
It looks like the owner owns a service company in el paso
and the Freus manufacturing. But I think there was a recent change in ownership if the Freus manufacturing line, not sure. Anyways i read some disturbing stuff I found on the Texas AGs website about this guy, I need to
find out if the units Freus sold me had bogus UL listings. Seems thats part of the lawsuit the State of Texas has filed against this guy and his company AC experts, appears he is a hack in all meanings of the word. lol
Here is a link to the AG Story
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=1624
So far it does not look like the Freus Manufacturing line
is affected, but I will try and find out tomorrow.
This may suck big time for me..
Picturing in my mind, me refunding a lot of money and
removing the equipment and installing air cooled units
at my expense.......
Oh this could be bad. luckily I have not installed too damn many of these..

[smngmu]

The relative humidity would have an effect if you were cooling the air with water. My system baths the condensor coils in water and the water is cooled from the cascade effect on a screen.My system is set about 23 SEER.The in coming water is in the system until a timer(set to flush the old water out and refill) tells it to pump out.The timer is set up by the installer but is variable for different water conditions. Mine is set to dump the basin every nine hours of COMPRESSOR run time.My drain is in the flower bed along side the unit.When I do put clr in to clean it every so often, I just move the drain line to the walk way.I've never really tried to figure how much water my system uses but I figure the sump holds about 12 gallons and it dumps about two times a day.They all come equipped with a drain for winter.Turn off supply water and open it up to prevent freeze damage.This is when I duoble the dose of CLR then empty it.First fire up of the cooling season,take out four screws and wipe out the scale and dust from the last season.Turn on the supply water and go.