Got my bids....need some help making decisions

[ga-hvac-tech]

Originally posted by jacob perkins
but ,thanks for the informative post


and welcome to h-talk.

THX for the welcome to the forum. I was a lurker (silent reader) for about a month.

So I am low on the custom job... Bet the builder would not think so...

Have a GREAT one!

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by jclancy
Thanks for the numbers....is it really as straight as that?

If I'm paying $100 a month using a 65% efficient furnace, I'll then pay $77 with an 80% and $54 with a 94%?????

(let's pretend I have no other gas powered items and consistent use of the furnace)

It can't be that simple, can it?

When I heard the Contractor say that I'd only see a 5-10% reduction in gas bill compared to the 80%, I assumed that there was a point of diminishing returns with this stuff, like there is with a lot of things.
[Edited by jclancy on 10-05-2005 at 06:58 AM]

Probably NOT quite that simple for an actual bill. How much of bill is for Actual Gas Usage? What are the delivery charges?

In other words, what is(are) the Fixed Cost(s) even if NO Gas is used?

Fixed ( admin. & delivery) cost might be $20 per month,
for all I know? Gas $ rate may also vary with the amount used.

$100- $20 = $ 80 x ~40% reduction = $32.
$68 might be more realistic ( versus $54).

Call Customer Service at your gas company and they will assist you with more specific information.

[jclancy]

OK, thank you everyone......I've made my mind up and am going for a 94% effecient Lennox G61. I'm really putting a lot of stock in the words of people on this board, because I'm spending a big chunk of change more than I was planning on to do this. I've rarely been led wrong by the Internet on making buying decisions, and I hope I'm not beginning a world of problems by going more complex than I orginally had thought.

I went with the contractor (C) who has been easily the most responsive and professional in the bid and question process. Since he was certainly not the cheapest, I hope he follows through after the sale. I was a little disappointed to hear him say now that he's got a 2-week backlog now for installation - one of the reasons I went with him was that he said he could do it "within a few days" back in early September. He basically told me yesterday that that was early September....now he's getting busier and busier.

Thanks for all of your help, etc. I'll let you know when it's all installed and running.

[ga-hvac-tech]

JC,

Quick note: PICTURES!!!

Would you do some before and after pictures and post them? THX!!!

[jclancy]

I'll take some photos.....am really having a hard time signing this piece of paper, when he's $2-3,000 more than the next guy, who I just found out called yesterday to see if I had given any more thought to the furnace bid. Uggggggh...the decisions.

But the bottom line is that I am going with a high efficiency model instead of an 80%. And that's the work of this forum.

Will post some photos.

Thanks!

[djmy]

Did you decide to also line the chimney?

[kjones]

Couple of notes on those savings calculations.

First off, Dan is right - you gotta get rid of fixed and other costs. For me I take $15 off the monthly gas bill, because that is the amount of my bill in the summer when all I have are the fixed costs plus my water heater usage.

Now, assuming that $2250 is gonna be your heating cost this winter, to see the cost difference between your current 65% unit and a 94% unit the formula is

($2250 * .65) / .94 = $1556

This is a 30% improvement in cost, not 29%. The correct math makes more of a difference for an 80% unit:

($2250 * .65) / .80 = $1828

This is a 19% improvement, not 15%.

Hope this helps. Can explain further if you want.

Oh yeah, as ga-va-tech stated there are savings in electric costs, although they are harder to quantify - the motor ratings aren't easy to figure out, and run times are longer on the higher-end units.

KJ

not a HVAC person, but can do math...

[jclancy]

Little bit of an update.......the furnace is going in on Friday, and yes, we will be lining the chimney. I ended up with Contractor B, not C (these were my preferred two the whole time). When I told C that I wanted to go with the high-efficiency, the new proposal ballooned to well over (X x THREE). He was unwilling to come down on anything at all (OK, he knocked $100 off). Then he told me that he couldn't do the job for first, several weeks, and now a month.....

Contractor B, who had followed up to call after his bid (the only other one to do so), has now been recommended by two neighbors and can do the job on Friday. I went with a one-stage (stop throwing tomatoes!!! ), 90+% efficient Heil. The two-stage was a good chunk of money more, and to be honest, I'm just not convinced that I want to pay more for the luxury.....we've lived with this 30-year-old clunker in the cellar for a decade, and I haven't / don't have a big problem with a rush of hot or cold air, etc. In fact, my wife, who's much more temperature-sensitive than I am, said that she thinks the actual temperatures in the house with the old furnace are just fine.

I understand the point about electricity efficiency with the different/better motor on the two-stage, but if I'm going to go over what I planned to spend on this project, let it be towards a more efficient furnace. I asked Contractor B what he would recommend on his own house (which he said was just like mine), and he said that the two-stage is nice, but a decent increase in price for something that adds more things to break, and adding a feature that I say I don't really care for one way or the other. He said the efficiency savings with the two-stage fan were in the end pretty minimal.

The chimney lining with Contractor B was much, much cheaper too....more in line with what chimney sweeps were telling me they charge. Think less than half of what Contractor C was telling me.

Wish me luck! I'll believe this job is done when I see the furnace in the basement, running, on Friday!

Thanks.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by jclancy
I went with a one-stage 90+% efficient Heil.

NICE Efficiency !

[jclancy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dan sw fl

NICE Efficiency !

I don't have the material right in front of me....I think it's [EDITED ONCE I HAD THE MATERIAL RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME ] 92%. Model DLX 90. Lifetime warrenty on the exchanger, five years on parts.

I also went with an Aprilair 600 humidifier.



[Edited by jclancy on 10-12-2005 at 07:57 AM]