international confort products

[klyons20]

Kenmore model c8mpto75f14a1

M/B ST9162A
gAS VALVE sv9541

Not getting draft fan motor to come on.
Light showing steady green on honeywell smart valve

I think its the fan timer board
This a two stage unit w1 w2

jumped induced motor it started.

so, I beleave its at the fan timer.

Are there any international confort products experts out there?

regards,
Kelvin

\

[Christheheatingdude]

Are you getting a call for heat from the thermostat? Just wondering, cause the inducer would be the first thing to power up after the call for heat. I know it is a silly thing to ask, but that is what I would check first, before changing out the board.

[klyons20]

Of course ... I jumped r and w1 .. I can hear the board click. The light is green on gas valve, but no draft motor.

I have proved that the motor does work, by jumping it.

even after the motor ran for a while still nothing. Not familar with this unit. Thats why I need a second opinion.

rgards,
Kelvin

[Jultzya]

The light should be a continually heatbeat.

You need to check the Hi/Lo pressure switches. One of them are closed. Locking the unit from operation.

Make sure they are properly located for your installation.

Do you have the serial of the unit. There was an issue with some of the pressure switches from a certain time frame if my memory serves me correctly.

[hvacprodmgr]

Originally posted by jultzya
The light should be a continually heatbeat.

You need to check the Hi/Lo pressure switches. One of them are closed. Locking the unit from operation.

Make sure they are properly located for your installation.

Do you have the serial of the unit. There was an issue with some of the pressure switches from a certain time frame if my memory serves me correctly.

Your memory does serve you correctly, verify High pressure switch is closing, we already know the lo pressure switch is closing when you jumped R and W1.

Is one of the switches metal? (the hi fire one should be.)

Serial number would be an indicator.

[Christheheatingdude]

How can the low pressure switch be closing, when the inducer motor won't even start? You need that to start before the switch will close. Unless the switch is closed before startup, which would cause it to fault.

[klyons20]

serial number is A033100704

I would think that the draft fan needs
to come on before the preasure switch
would close. I would think if the preasure switch was stuck in an
open or close position I would get a code for it. The draft
motor is one of the first things that come on regardless
of a code.
I am thinking fan controller. It so many wires on the
smart valve. I had to study the schematic.

regards,
Kelvin

[Christheheatingdude]

That is where my thinking takes me as Klyons. That the board controlling the inducer is not switching it on in a call for heat. Therefore the pressure switches are not getting a chance to close. Unless there is something I am missing.

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by klyons20
serial number is A033100704

I would think that the draft fan needs
to come on before the preasure switch
would close. I would think if the preasure switch was stuck in an
open or close position I would get a code for it. The draft
motor is one of the first things that come on regardless
of a code.

First, the pressure switch SHOULD be open on a call for heat (unless it is faulty).

Second, forget the damn light! Use it as an aid in diagnostics, but don't RELY on it!

Third, you need to test the switches. One could be faulty and closed not allowing the unit to start its operation. They have to open in order for the unit to come on. Otherwise the switch could fail (closed) and then it would not be protecting the unit from a major malfunction!

[klyons20]

You guys are scaring me.. This is 2 stage furnace with a honeywell smart valve. and a fan timer control board.
This unit is not a simple setup. It has wires every where.

If you start the unit and no draft motor comes on. Then that the first place you start would be is to figure out If the motor faulty or is it not being trigured to come on. This is a two stage draft motor. I proved that the motor does work by jumping it.

The little fan timer board run this system and controls all fans on the unit. So, after research it has to be the fan timer board. The honeywell gas valve has about 15 wires on it. So, its a little difficult than normal to trouble shoot this system with out a little reading of the wire diagram.

This is a Kenmore system made by icp.
Sears want 93.00 for a service call! plus labor, but the board might be covered under warrity. Since the unit is less than two years old.

I will go directly to icp for a warrity replacement.

regards,
kelvin

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by klyons20
You guys are scaring me.. This is 2 stage furnace with a honeywell smart valve. and a fan timer control board.
This unit is not a simple setup. It has wires every where.

If you start the unit and no draft motor comes on. Then that the first place you start would be is to figure out If the motor faulty or is it not being trigured to come on. This is a two stage draft motor. I proved that the motor does work by jumping it.

The little fan timer board run this system and controls all fans on the unit. So, after research it has to be the fan timer board. The honeywell gas valve has about 15 wires on it. So, its a little difficult than normal to trouble shoot this system with out a little reading of the wire diagram.

This is a Kenmore system made by icp.

Don't start preaching to the quire just yet!

So of us know this unit a little better than you do, as we are not the ones asking the questions on it! I know this system like the back of my hand. And you stated; "Not familar with this unit. Thats why I need a second opinion".

You didn't have to tell ME what brand this unit is, as I know them numbers. (c8mpto75f14a1)

# C8MPT075F14A1 your "o" after the "t" is actually a "0" as in a number.

C = Comfortmaker (brand)
8 = 80 percent
MP = Multi-Positional
075 = Input btu
F = 19" Cabinet Width
14 = 1400 CFM Blower
A = Marketing Change
1 = Engineering Change

# A033100704

Manufactured 31 week of 03.

Going off the data that you supplied, we knew:

1) there were no fault codes
2) that inducer ran when wired direct
3) that on a call for heat the inducer doesn't run
4) that you eliminated the stat by jumping R to W1 at board
5) that there has been issues with the hi fire switches in some of the two stage units

By your second post, we can assume you didn't measure the vacuum that the inducer was pulling.

We know that the switches HAVE to open after the heat cycle or the units WILL NOT START UP AGAIN!

Not being there, we gave you the best advice we could by going off of your limited data!

Sears want 93.00 for a service call! plus labor, but the board might be covered under warrity. Since the unit is less than two years old.

Now by this comment you get:



Servicemen don't worry about what others charge. Servicemen FIX the problem that exists in front of them!

DIY'ers on the other hand try to foul pros to get by cheap.

Which are you; a serviceman or DIY'er?

(we can't help DIY, due to site rules )

[Mr HVAC41]

lol balloons!!!

[hvacprodmgr]

Let me rephrase my post a little bit, I probably did not word it right. Christheheatingdude, I can see where that could be misinterpreted.

My concern is this, This is a 2-stage, which means on a call for heat, the vent motor will start on high speed and high fire. it does not go to lo fire until after the system has started. Are you reading hi fire amps or lo fire amps on the vent motor when you jumped R and W1 ?

Both switches should be open on a call and then close when proved when vent motor comes on. If the switch did not close after the previous cycle, the vent motor will not start. However you should be getting a fault code if this is the case. I would look for continuity in the vent motor plug in the smartvalve, since this is your ignition control.

I may not be totally correct, but just some things I am taking from the information given. Please correct me if I am wrong. Its been a long last 7 days or so and I think the brain (or what little is left of it !) is about to explode.

[klyons20]

When I said that the draft motor would not start? Some of you started talking about proving switches. When a call for heat is made immediately the draft motor comes on. If not that would put you at what makes the draft motor comes on. In this case that would be the fan timer board or fan relay switch. Proving switches, limit switches; generally have nothing to do with the draft motor coming on.

If you look at the connection diagram you will see the orange wire coming from INDIN to number 1 on the gas valve. I was not sure weather the 120 volts was coming from the board to the gas valve or from the gas valve to the board.

The valve showed green so there were no faults.
The most logical thing to have thought is to test the fan timer board and that’s what I did. I had no power coming from INDH,INDL and INDIN. So, I sent power to INDIN and the motor started, but I did not send 120volts up the orange wire to the gas valve, because I was not sure were the power suppose to come from. Thats why I want a second opinion from someone who works on this type of furnace all the time.

If you really knew furnace like you pretend you would have said check power coming from the relay in this case INDH and or INDL. I call comfortmaker dealer this morning, they said they would warranty the part.

Thanks for those who tried to assist.

Regards,
Kelvin

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by klyons20
When I said that the draft motor would not start? Some of you started talking about proving switches.

That’s because SOME of US actually KNOW this SYSTEM!

When a call for heat is made immediately the draft motor comes on. If not that would put you at what makes the draft motor comes on.

Which is WHY I asked if you checked the pressure switches!

In this case that would be the fan timer board or fan relay switch. Proving switches, limit switches; generally have nothing to do with the draft motor coming on.

Wrong!
Generally, I don’t ask or tell someone to check something IF I DON’T KNOW!

If you look at the connection diagram you will see the orange wire coming from INDIN to number 1 on the gas valve. I was not sure weather the 120 volts was coming from the board to the gas valve or from the gas valve to the board.

The valve showed green so there were no faults.

I told you to forget the stupid little light. I wish they would do away with them. People always say… but the light says… If people would LEARN how to diagnose equipment, they wouldn’t need to rely on a little light half the time!

The most logical thing to have thought is to test the fan timer board and that’s what I did. I had no power coming from INDH,INDL and INDIN. So, I sent power to INDIN and the motor started, but I did not send 120volts up the orange wire to the gas valve, because I was not sure were the power suppose to come from. Thats why I want a second opinion from someone who works on this type of furnace all the time.

I gave you your second opinion (and I deal with them ALL THE TIME), however you wish to TRY to teach ME about a system that I have been working on EVER since it come into the field!

If you really knew furnace like you pretend you would have said check power coming from the relay in this case INDH and or INDL.

Wrong, I already knew you didn’t have power there. You tested the motor and it ran (so motor is good), so if you had power at the board…. Guess what? IT WOULD HAVE RAN!

I call comfortmaker dealer this morning, they said they would warranty the part.

I wish manufactures would start checking parts. Maybe this would lead to DENIED claims that would in turn lower equipment costs! But you go ahead and change that board, cause YOU know it’s BAD! And by all means it's under WARRANTY!

I’m not clear as to WHY you even asked us PRO’S.

Thanks for those who tried to assist.

That’s some thanks, telling a PROFESSIONAL that they are TOTALLY wrong!


And just so EVERY ONE knows how wrong you are, below is the manufactures flow chart for diagnosing their C8MPT unit… Which I happen to know like the BACK of my hand!



Note, it says to make sure the switches prove open!


BTW, Another poster in this thread has it pretty well stated. And here it is….

Originally posted by kelvin
Can you read a wiring diagram? If you can you will understand that jultzya is right. And in do respect don't teach the pro. The reason we go to the "doctor" is to seek a professional advice. I've been in this trade for 10 years now. And I know this guys are good.

But in your case, you can't see the logic that the board uses to control the unit. But, I on the other hand know what that logic sequence is supposed to be.

Next time do your own homework!

Have a nice day changing that board.

[Mr HVAC41]

is is probably the switches! does he know how to change a control board? or read aq wiring diagram? i sure as heck can! appears to be a diy issue to me


BALLOONS JULTZYA!!!!!!!

[Carnak]

When the pressure switches are three wire, it could mean that control power has to pass through a normally closed contact of a pressure switch in order for the inducer fan to start.

Maybe a set of contacts are shot.

[klyons20]

If you would have had the service manual I could have fix it a little faster. Thats why I posted the question. Instead of some of you being a smart ___ ! you could have just emailed me the service manual.

If the proven switch was stuck in the closed position then
the smart valve would have stated that. Thats why its a smart valve..

I change the fan timer board and everything works fine..

I am licensed. I dont what that has to do with the question? You boys talk on this site all day and I will go make the money..

regards,
Kelvin

[Mr HVAC41]

If the proven switch was stuck in the closed position then
the smart valve would have stated that. Thats why its a smart valve..


my cat is smarter than your stupid gas valve!

[Carnak]

Sounds like you took a good guess and changed the right part.