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  1. #1
    new to ddc--do you need to learn the computer programming languages? (basic,java,c++)i've been reading the h/w gray book and it talks about object-orientated languages (custom software packages) tailored to the requirements of specific vendor's controller.sounds easier than acomp science course.

  2. #2
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    Originally posted by filterbuoy
    new to ddc--do you need to learn the computer programming languages? (basic,java,c++)i've been reading the h/w gray book and it talks about object-orientated languages (custom software packages) tailored to the requirements of specific vendor's controller.sounds easier than acomp science course.
    where you get the gray book and what year is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    very soon it is you that will be pwned

  3. #3
    from work (h/w),it's 1997.

  4. #4
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    got access to anymore?
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    very soon it is you that will be pwned

  5. #5
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    I might have it in a pdf file. I will have to look.

  6. #6
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    Is this the H\W manual you are speaking of?

    http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...0s/77-1100.pdf

  7. #7
    that's the one but on your's (pdf)--program design,writing,compiling is on page # 137 ,mine its on page # 143.do you know if you still need to learn the standard programming languages (basic etc.)?

  8. #8
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    ive got copies of the pdf, plus I got it on cd, looking for the actual book.

    For programming it depends on what company you go with on what type of programming you need, until you plot a course filter it is hard to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    very soon it is you that will be pwned

  9. #9

    Thumbs up

    joey791--they closed our h/w service-line department (that's where i scooped mine) but i'll snoop around the book shelves.i'll let you know if one turns up.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by filterbuoy
    joey791--they closed our h/w service-line department (that's where i scooped mine) but i'll snoop around the book shelves.i'll let you know if one turns up.
    Cool I really appreciate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    very soon it is you that will be pwned

  11. #11
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    I don't know much about computer programming languages. Learned a bit about line code with Powers systems. If this then go to line 3040 etc.
    I've learned the programming software that our distributor uses. It's a graphical programming interface. There's others out there that use plain english programming and from what I understand you can easily read/write to that by just reading or typing in sentences what you want it to do. I guess the bigger issue here is that they don't all fall back on one protocol. So pick a langauge and start learning. LON would probably be a good one to start. Open protocol and everyone has to talk SNVTs, SCPTs, UCPTs, etc.
    Someone correct me if I am wrong here but that is my limited understanding.
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  12. #12
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    It depends much on the vendors system you use, and what you want to do with it.

    For most of the control programs, any exposure to programming languages helps, but is in no way required. The programming languages used to create control programs tend to be proprietay anyway. The most important thing here is an understanding of WHAT you want the program to do. Then comes the HOW to accomplish it within the capabilities (or lack of) of the system you are working with.

    You have two parts that are related - data and logic. The data comes from hardware I/O, and nowadays, from the control network in the form of open protocol points (whether BACnet, Lon, or Modbus). The logic is the part that uses and produces more data, and that is where programming sequence comes in. For controllers that have programmable logic, the only way to get at it is the vendors programming tool, so it is the best starting point.

    BACnet, Lon, or any other protocols are not programming languages - they are data. And for some pieces of equipment, that is all you can get out of them. An example might be a LonWorks VAV controller. The programming logic may be permanent, and all you really do is set some configuration parameters, and link the data points with other devices. But this stuff is important in today's controls, and it does pay to learn the use of open protocols for data exchange.


  13. #13
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    Originally posted by filterbuoy
    new to ddc--do you need to learn the computer programming languages? (basic,java,c++)i've been reading the h/w gray book and it talks about object-orientated languages (custom software packages) tailored to the requirements of specific vendor's controller.sounds easier than acomp science course.
    As others have noted, no ... you don't HAVE to learn computer programming, depending upon the equipment you are working with, the way the company you work for is organized, your particular position and job function, and so forth.

    Some DDC controllers have fixed sets of functions, routines and such in firmware. Programming them is pretty much click on a button or control to activate it, or deactivate, click on which input you wish it to reference, and fill in the blanks for scaling, engineering units, PID loop parameters, etc.

    Some vendors make available, for programmable controllers with no fixed controls and routines, a graphical programming enviornment. Where you essentially select from a list of premade boxes the things you needs. An input box, a time delay box, and an output box. Draw links between them and then fill in the blanks for assigning properties to each. ie Scaling for the input and whether it's voltage, resistance, etc, then give it an Engineering Unit (degrees, volts, etc. And, if desired, assign alarm point values and so forth. Move to the time delay block, and do the same. So forth and so on. The programming "language" may have hundreds of premade boxes or blocks containing various functions. That is, a widget that might do something you need to get done. Or will, once you combine it with other widgets.

    Some such graphical programming languages are pretty good. Others suck. Usually the vendor makes it possible to enter regular, real line code programming to accomplish things you can't, no matter how you arrange them, with the premade blocks.

    FWIW, there really is regular line code program lines behind the pretty pictures, you just don't see it and don't necessarily need to learn it. It's pretty much the same as with things like Visual Basic, where you use a graphical "interface" to DRAW a screen form and put buttons, input blocks, output text boxes and such on the form (window)using pictures you drag and drop, and drawing lines and such. But behind the scenes, the interface program is "writing" lines of computer code for you. And, in fact, you could just write the code without using the pretty pictures. If you know how.

    Still other controllers use one or another version of line code programming. Which range from terse and hard to understand (until you learn it well) commands, functions, and statements resembling assembly language pseudo-code ... to well developed, rich in commands and functions languages which resemble a much enhanced and advanced "Basic". One vendor calls it's programming langauge "Plain English Programming". Which is a rather vast exaggeration. But it's a very good, well made programming language.

    My suggestion? Pick one, learn it. Won't hurt you. It can be fun. And the basic principles you'll learn can be useful. And will be applicable to almost any other computer language. The first one is always the hardest. But once you understand the logic and principles, the next you learn will come much easier. The differences usually being cosmetic, more than anything else. ie The using of different terms for the same thing you know under a different term, do you signify an EOL (end of line)with a cariage return, line feed, carriage return and line feed, or a semicolon, etc. That kind of thing. But once yah learn the basic concepts of what variables are and the different kinds, what is an array and what's a multidimensional array, program flow control items like If ... then ... else as versus Case, fixed functions and what user defined functions are, etc. And the WHAT and WHY behind the existance of such things. (Why have em, and what do yah do with em?) You'll have it whupped. After that, going to a different computer language is no biggie.

    Pay attention, in particular, to binary logic. AND, OR, NOR, NOT, XOR, etc. And basic Boolean operations. Any decent tutorial on any computer language should cover the subject. This is used in everything from basic relay logic used for programming of basic PLC's to the most advanced DDC controllers (and, of course, the latest and greatest full blown computer systems). And is where I see more mistakes made, and lack of understanding, than with almost anything else.

    Just my opinion.

    If you decide to go for it, the are MANY free programming languages available. Which you can have at only the cost of downloading them. Plus the sweat and time of learning to do something with it. I'd suggest one or another variation of Basic or Pascal as a starting point. All, that I'm aware of, come with manuals. And there are many, many free tutorials on the Internet you can easily look up and use to learn the language of your choice.

    I'd stick with the older, more basic computer languages such as one of the two I mentioned. They'll teach you the essentials. And a great deal of what's in the more advanced computer languages is not really useful or applicable to PLC's, DDC units, etc. If the language you choose offers both "Windows" and "Console" mode programming, concentrate on the Console (plain text) part of the language. After all, we're talking about making machines do something as versus making pretty pictures on a computer screen, generating nifty sounds and special graphic effects, or creating a new method to collate and coordinate a database dispersed over 5 different sorts of networks among 2000 different offices using a variety of different Operating Systems, computers, video screens, NIC cards, etc. While maintaining system integrety and security against hashing, bashing, and buffer overload attacks from intruders.










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