I just gotta comment on the residential HVAC trade

[pecmsg]

Originally posted by Noel Murdough

Talk to a fireman that you know in your area. The things that THEY get to see are amazing....
Noel

That’s one I never thought of.

Smithtown
Keep taking care of the workers that you get. The cold drink's or lunch is greatly appreciate but often never given.

[mrfrio]

As a homowner, how SHOULD I act so that when I meet with you, the contractor for a quote, I'm likely to get a call back and also get a fair price. For instance list what labels me either as an

a) pain in the ass.
b) sucker begging to be hung out to dry
c) a normal guy, lets try to give him a fair deal.

By your comments it appears that you would be a good homeowner to deal with. If homeowners do some of the following they will typically get preferential service if not price from contractors they are dealing with...

1. Have a previous idea of what problem or situation you're trying to resolve. In other words, why do you want an estimate. Is the system not cooling/heating the whole house well, or is it a specific problem. If we know what you're trying to accomplish it's easier to present options to you. Even though a good salesman should be able to elicit this information from you, it's helpful that you have already thought of it.

2. Don't argue with the wife in front of HVAC guy about what you guys want. I run from these alot because many times the one that loses the battle will try to screw up the install to spite their mate.

3. Don't be a know it all. Ask questions? If you think the HVAC guy says something wrong, ask first. There may be an unstated reason why he said that.

4. Respect that the tech/sales person is probaly meeting you at no charge after incurring a considerable transportation cost. Allow the hvac guy time to present his options and explanations. I hate it when I meet a HO at 6:00 PM after fighting traffic for 2 hours and when I get there they say "OK here's the unit. I'll be outside cutting the grass. Leave the estimate on the table when your done." right BITE ME.

5. If you're a HO and a white collar worker show respect to contractors as you expect to be respected. Some HO's look down on HVAC guys. Some deserve it but don't prejudge all. There are many contractors that are very successful and earn well into 6 figures.

6. It's perfectly ok to ask for insurance policies, references, etc.

7.Ohh last one... dont be a moron and ask to be included on the companies insurance policy. lol

[Irascible]

Originally posted by smithtown
But what is the best way to interact with the guy who is coming to give the estimate?

Mr. Cold has good words. The point I'm about to make doesn't contradict them. It just takes a more philosophical view as opposed to step by step instructions.

I think the question is best answered by understanding who you're dealing with. In my opinion a huge portion of those who make sales calls are a certain type of professional salesmen. The are master manipulators with scripted answers for quite literally every thing you might say. They learn body language, tonal inflections, what color paper is best and so on. The presentation is so well choreographed that they are nothing but actors putting on a show. They're not real. So how does one advise you on how to deal with an actor? Hollywood actors are notoriously phony, pretentious and just plain not nice. A lot of professional hustlers have similar problems in my opinion.

My suggestion is to screen those types out and find regular Joes who are just trying to make an honest buck. Then you can just be yourself without the need for pretense.

Yes, creating two groups is entirely too simplistic. There are a thousand gradients between professional shyster and regular Joe. But my opinion is that if you have to worry about acting just the right way then you shouldn't deal with that contractor anyway.

[Edited by Irascible on 09-28-2005 at 04:06 PM]

[smithtown]

Excellent, excellent replies! All of them. Keep'em coming! Thanks.

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by beenthere
What town are you in, I'm in Lancaster.

Our range is downingtown, and West Chester, Lebonon, Reading, Harrisburg, and once in a while to York.

Not to talk price, but to do what your asking for, I'll be more then what you posted.

Hey! We're neighbors. Take me to lunch

[gruvn]

Originally posted by csj
Dear Board....

Let me first say, I have been lurking for some time on this board and today I posed my first question and recieved a prompt reply...thank you.

Now to my rant....over the last month or so I have been screening contractors in attempt to get a entire heat pump system installed in my home in southeast Pennsylvania. I need ductwork and all in a 1700 sf bilevel home.....no big deal. No unreasonable requests. System to be installed in the attic. I want metal duct runs with limited flex ductwork, R-8 insulation, a 14 SEER/8.40 HSPF or better unit with variable speed airhandler, programmable thermostat, an Aprilaire 2200 media filter and 2 returns..one upstairs, one downstairs witht the downstairs return having to be run through a closet with a false floor (which I will install). Thats it. Nothing strange.

I have literally contacted 15 contractors for bids. Out of those 15, 6 decided not to provide a quote (they either didnt show up for the scheduled "project look see", or simply did not submit a proposal after seeing the project....they got work? they didnt like the job? I dont know.....mind you, they didnt tell me they would not submit a proposal, I had to call and ask why they didnt submit anything after two or three weeks went by). Other results of the contractor selection process.....one proposal came through without company name, address, phone or contact so you couldnt tell who it was from (absolutely amazing), one was compelted onsite and obviously incomplete because the sales guy just didnt want to spend more than 15 minutes in my house (Home Depot), 2 had errors in their pricing, and several never even specified specific equipment or insulation levels which were gonna be used. Calls placed to several contractor to ask questions or emails sent out were not returned by in 2 out of 2 cases. In all honesty, I got one, 1, uno written proposal which I would have considered to be responsive, professional, addressed my concerns, etc. but when I called to speak about it and left a message, they never called back.

Just to make sure you folks dont flame me, I contacted some of what are considered the more reputable firms in my area as well as some independent contractors. And just so you dont think I am a complete idiot, I actually provided the contractors with a spec sheet of what I was looking for and what they should "explain/address" in their written proposal. For example, I told them to include permits at a cost of $125.00. Do you think any of them included the fees for the permits? Only one did!

I am sorry, but there is something seriously wrong with the HVAC trade. Sales people that came to look at my project did nothing to sell me anything! They couldnt explain squat. Written proposals for a $8000 to $9500 project consist of about 50 words which apparently are written purposely vague on many issues. When you start questioning the contractor for details, he doenst wish to take the time to explain and he gives me the distinct impression that I am a pain in his ass. Holy crap, you want me to drop $9000 and you wont take 15 minutes to talk to me! I ask for revised written proposals to address specific concerns and suddenly the air handler changes in capacity by 9000 btus, the SEER rating drops .075 units but the price remains the same. Payment terms include 50% down (ok, I can do that) and then 50% on SUBSTAINTIAL completion. WTF is substaintial completion? I never heard of such. Its either complete or its not!

All I can say is this trade has some serious problems. The standard of care which seems to be employed, at least in my area and in my opinion, is pretty darn low. I am business owner myself and all I can say is that a contractor who is truly professional in his sales, follow up, customer service and is reasonable in his pricing would make a killing in the HVAC trade in this area. I cannot believe what I have gone through in attemp to select a HVAC contractor, and in all honesty, at this point, I think I have just wasted 1 months efforts and burned up most of the contractors in my immediate area. But then again, if the contractors I contacted are representative of the trade, maybe I will just install a campfire ring in my basement for heat, and employ a small asian girl with a waving palm leaf for cooling purposes.

I am simply amazing at how crappy sales, proposals, and customer service are for this trade! This is just my experience and my opinion for my area.

Chris

With all due respect, I think you ran into a situation where you were expecting them to sign on to your quote, and not necessarily provide you with theirs, I think that is your reason for the negative results of your efforts.Most companies will see you as a PITA ( pain in the a@@ customer and avoid you like the plague.

[RoBoTeq]

My, my! Eddie did sum it up quite well with so few words. I am taken back by this to the point post.

[Twilly]

I have not submitted bids on many similar customers. If a customer suggested being added to my insurance policy I would laugh and pickup my crap and leave. It would make me afraid of what was to come.

Although I can say that I have had "normal" customers tell me that they have made appointments and not had the contractors show up, although that is rare.

If I run into a customer like this I often will shoot them a bid to get the reaction to the price and tell them if this sounds like the amount they are willing to spend, we can get together and discuss the specifics.

I also ask them if the specifics are in order are they ready to go ahead and get on the schedule. If they say no, I waste no more time with them.

I never made a dime from an estimate, have any of you?

[Dad]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
My, my! Eddie did sum it up quite well with so few words. I am taken back by this to the point post.

Actually it was very well put. Nice going M.

[gruvn]

Hey thanks guys, I just couldn't see his reason for bashing the trade as a whole, when he is not playing the game fairly. He doesn't understand that a contractor leaves his reputation in that home, he is asking that you put your reputation on his design, and we all know what will happen when a problem comes from it.Customers need to speak in general terms of their wants and needs and let the contractor figure how best to accomplish it. Otherwise he is just hiring labor and he can get that from minuteman.

[RoBoTeq]

Yea, yea...don't go ruining a perfect post by yammmering on

[James 3528]

I remember the good old days when we just told them to go to hell. I miss that. Now I have to be good for what reason I can't recall.

[beenthere]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by beenthere
What town are you in, I'm in Lancaster.

Our range is downingtown, and West Chester, Lebonon, Reading, Harrisburg, and once in a while to York.

Not to talk price, but to do what your asking for, I'll be more then what you posted.

Hey! We're neighbors. Take me to lunch

I was off Wedensday, we could have gone.