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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    5,340
    Originally posted by csj

    Now to my rant....over the last month or so I have been screening contractors in attempt to get a entire heat pump system installed in my home in southeast Pennsylvania.
    You live in a state that does not require any licensing to be in this business, and you want to blame the industry?

    You are an idiot.

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    230
    Dear Customer

    I know your spending $9,000.00 on your house but I'll be lucky to clear $1000.00 for my 14 wasted quotes on other people and your job. This 1K will be spread out to pay for my survival as it's feast or famine seasonally.
    Now since I'm only making 1K, and my time is money, I think I'll try to avoid thos of you that want all these little small adders that take up my time and concentrate on those of you who know what they want and trust I know what I'm doing.

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4
    Does anyone else wonder why someone who knows soooo much would need to hire the work out? Just DIY and save all that money !!

    Maybe he could become a HVAC contractor and turn this rotten industry around...

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,770
    Originally posted by madeinusa
    Originally posted by csj


    You live in a state that does not require any licensing to be in this business, and you want to blame the industry?

    You are an idiot.
    He was trolling.

    But did you have to bring up that no license detail.

    I really wish the state would go to licensing requirements.

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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold.calm
    Posts
    5,438


    I really wish the state would go to licensing requirements.

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Don’t kid yourself. Licensing doesn’t eliminate the Hacks. It just costs us more.

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,840
    I think you guys scared him away.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Licensing is very helpful in many ways. For one, it gives distributors one more tool to keep from having to sell to non-HVAC customers. Many smaller distributors are also plumbing, electrical and building supply companies that have no legal reason to tell a customer who has an account and has been buying other products regularly, that they cannot buy HVAC equipment. With licensing, this is easier to accomplish.

    Also, when complaints are made against unlicensed workers, they can be heavily fined and even jailed for entering into a contract without a license. So yes, it is a deterent.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,770
    Originally posted by pecmsg


    I really wish the state would go to licensing requirements.

    It won't stop all.

    But every little bit helps.

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  9. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    Ditto what Robo wrote

    There aren't enough tools to keep it amoung qualified installers exclusively.

    I wish it were bulletproof.

    Some of you think me a hypocrate, but that's really how I feel.

    The big outfits find a way to sell anything legal to sell.
    There aren't any requirements to find out who will be installing the stuff. The home centers buy from the same wholesalers that you guys do.

    What would you have me do? All replies are welcome. It certainly doesn't help any of us; customers, installers, wholesalers (hmmmm), home centers (Hmm...never mind), regional reps, or manufacturers, to have stuff installed wrong. What would you change?

    Do you think it should be regulated like nuclear power? Should we contractors (OK, I used to be one) need a bunch of supervision to put a boiler in our own homes? Should anyone be able to do it? Any suggestions? What needs to change?

    I hope you guys respond. This could become pretty enlightening.

    Noel

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,770
    Well, in PA, a hvac license. The test for it, a real test, not a history test.

    Permits required every where.
    Then enforcement of the codes.


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  11. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    northern mass
    Posts
    411
    Where did this guy go ?

    I wanted to say that I agree with him to some measure. This trade is ridled with incompetence. I can't believe how many idiots are out there doing HVAC. I am truley surprised that this is the first post like this that i've noticed.

    It's been my observation, that the HVAC trade is full of fly-by-night, uneducated wanna-be's, who for some insane reason, are still legaly allowed to perform work in people's homes.

    And I know you agree with me. Just look at the "wall of shame".

    OK.........now with that being said, let me break it down a bit for ya..



    I would have to say, and this is only opinion I guess, that the ratio of "hacks" is probably lower on the service tech side. At least there is some measure of education there to begin with....i hope. But on my side.....the installer......WOW ! I can't believe some of the things i've seen, and now that i'm older, it bothers me more that i'm still seeing these types of things.

    It makes everyone look bad when someone sees that kind of stuff. And the fact that it goes un-noticed or maybe un-fixed ?? is even worse. Atleast when I see say an electrician screw up, the inspector makes him fix it. But what happens when there is no HVAC inspector....?

    All I know, I guess, is that there is alot of what seems to be good guys on this board. Most of the people I see posting alot seem to have a solid grasp on the trade and are always on the prowel for more education. What more could you want.....honesty, good work ethic, and good education. Mistakes happen, and the good guys fix them.

    I myself have been an installer since highschool, and during. I am 32 now, and still love what I do. I do alot of my own work with a partner, and am company foreman at my company.

    My company is focused on quality and a job done right, which is why I work there. But there are many, many other companies out there that are not traveling down the same path. It's a shame that we are all lumped into the same catagory together, but the good guys usually shine through.

    Which brings me to Mr. HO. I fully agree with his disgruntledness. I hear the same story over and over, and it's a shame. I don't think HO's should have to settle to get something done instead of getting getting it done right and their way. But I am speaking more in general terms and not really in his paricular case. It seems to me that you either managed to exclusively find every idiot in the book, or there is some underlying theme to which you carefully let slip from your desrciption. 15 is a big #, don't be fooled. If you managed to have 15 people come to your home and everyone of them missed the mark, maybe you should head to Vagas and play the odds !

    All I know is that I am pretty confident that if called, I would come to your home, be straight with you and have a proposal within a few days for you. You would have all the info you need on it, nothing more, nothing less. That's all there is to it. I don't see a problem.

  12. #77
    He wants a low price that is a glaring fact in his entire post and he is upset that it was easily recognized by all of the contractors, and they just did not want to deal with him, he set a price of 9 grand for what he asked for in his spec. ( and we have not seen the actual spec) what does he think he can get for 9 grand, I don't think I could do that job on the side for less than 12.

  13. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,142

    Talking welcome to the new age

    There is a growing trend for homeowners to call every contractor in the book for free estimates. They load up on piles of estimates, many of which aren't worth the paper they're written on because the estimator realizes he's been screwed into a free estimate. Now he's giving out free technical advice. All those yrs of experience being given away. This same person will hold onto these estimates forever, never committing to one. These people cannot committ to a decision and every time they talk to another contractor and hear one thing different, it gets them to doubting themselves.

    Charge them what you would for a normal service trip and make sure they know up front that rate is for the first 45 minutes. After that, your estimating time goes for $1/min. That will get them to ask only pertinent questions and get you out the door even if they do accept paying for your time.

    If they balk at paying, walk away happy you out smarted them. In fact, send them to your competition who loves doing free estimates and pump them to ask him about multiple iterations in the setup & equipment.[grin]

    Everyone wants something for nothing. Tell them free estimates are worth what they pay for.

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