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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Coastal NH
    Posts
    4
    We have a Ultimate FHW Boiler with Tankless DHW, with Beckett AFG Burner .87 GPH . This is a early 1980 system in a 2700SF Cape Style Home in NH with 3 Taco 007-F3 circulators. Our annual oil consumption is approx 1000 Gal. I surmise the efficiency of this system to be in the 70-75% range plus with tankless unit runs frequently to maintain temp.

    Current problem is the Beckett Burner is "popping" during operation (firing intermittently during operation but staying runing)diagnosed by tech as having a bad burner tube as it is burned off on one side where the dispersion cone is attached.

    We have this cleaned/tuned annually however each year it is something else $200-300 typically for misc repairs.

    Options:

    1. Repair current Beckett burner? Approx. $2-300
    2. Replace current burner with new one? Approx $1200
    3. Replace System with either a Buderus G215 or Burnham MPO with 30-40 Gal DHW tank system? $4-5000+

    Questions:

    1. Factoring the age of the system and maintenance (outside of cleaning/tuneup)of $300 annually what is the best solution this forum would advise?

    2. If system replacement which system? Buderus or Burnham?

    3. What should we expect the efficiency of a new system versus current system e.g. 85% versus 70% and does this correlate directly to saving 150 gallon of fuel? (15% of 1000 gal)

    The tech advises Buderus G215 with Riello burner and 35 Gal DHW tank system. I have also read on the forum here that this is a good package, however the Burnham is also a good option.

    I appreciate the advise and recommendation of the forum.














  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,778
    Either boiler/burner package is a good choice.
    The indirect water heater will reduce your oil comsumption alone.
    Get atleast one, if not 2 more quotes.

    Also, what condition is youor oil tank in, have it checked while your at it.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    Look a little closer at what you have.

    That's a high efficiency boiler.

    Put in an indirect water heater.

    Fix the burner.

    Find out where the draft or fresh air problem is, and have it corrected.

    Burn clean oil in it, and keep the boiler clean.

    That's a VERY nice, pressure fired boiler.

    Noel

    p.s., I bet that boiler came out of J A Marino, in Manchester. That's where I used to get them. What town are you in? I might have put that boiler in.....

    [Edited by Noel Murdough on 09-25-2005 at 08:05 PM]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    654
    Fix the burner head (blast tube assembly). Running the boiler with a damaged blast tube will fil the boiler with soot. Soot is a GREAT insulator, the LAST thing you want on the INSIDE of a boiler. You wouldn't want soot on the outside of the boiler either, but you get the point!

    The recoup on the cost of installing a complete new boiler setup as compared to fixing what you have will be past your lifetime. Really. So unless you're looking to save your grand kids some money, fix what you got and conserve elsewhere (new windows, more insulation, etc). Installing a hot water tank is recommended as well...tankless coils are energy wasters IMO.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Coastal NH
    Posts
    4
    Gentlemen,

    Responses are appreciated with the direction of repair versus replacement.

    Noel - we are in Hampton Woodland Rd for last 10 years so previous owner installed this new in 1980-81 is best guess.

    Sooting has been an issue in the past - plugged 2 times in last 5 years. This case you have soot inside (and outside).

    So concensus is repair the system and get air settings right - the current tech does not use gauges just visual for adjusting and this is of mild concern. What are the forum thoughts? Can a system like this be set properly visually?

    Casturbo you say not in a lifetime will we see ROI? I realize my lifetime could be shortened by many factors like too many wives and other decisions but we intend to stay around for probably 20 +- years, unless wife 2 wants to change me out!

    Also one co. said 20-25% efficency with Buderus and external tank over the current system which with oil at $2+ this is a 5 year ROI by my calculation.

    I have several weeks to sort this out so will not rush to decision without all the facts.

    Thanks

    Carl


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    wasn't one of mine

    I was inland, more.

    Look up your boiler, here.

    http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...e+boiler&hl=en

    I doubt you'll find ANY boiler that is 20% better than the one you have.

    My opinion (and only that) is that you have the wrong guy telling you things about your equipment. I don't say things like this very often, so look up your boiler, please, and see for yourself.

    Noel

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Coastal NH
    Posts
    4
    Noel,

    Thanks - found the Ultimate 87% so like you stated its not possible to get 20% or even 10% more efficient.

    The question I asked was will I save 20% in oil going to a new burner and external tank. The answer was yes, so this is 200 gal using 1000 gal/year.

    I understand the Ulitmate has stack temps fairly high and one point Buderus make is 300 Deg stack temp verus 500+ on Ulitmate boiler, plus the wasted energy when firing for a few gallons of hot water is inefficient thus the external tank would save $$.

    So sounds like the plan should be to repair and get existing plant in shape then decide on external tank later.

    What is your opinion on setting up the Ultimate/Beckett burner visually versus using more technical methods and equipment?






  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    Not using instruments...

    This shows that he can't get rated efficiencies out of ANY boiler.

    I'm trying to be gentle, here.

    With $2 plus oil, throw him out. He only has his own interests in mind. He is still tuning burners for 29 cent oil. I believe that those days are gone, and not coming back.

    The proof is in your boiler room.

    Noel

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,708
    Come on now..tell us, tell us how you really feel Noel.

    I bet you're thinking sure glad its not one of mine.LOL.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,285

    OK, no holding back

    I don't care for it when American boilers are held as the least efficient on the market. That's just Bullshirt.

    If the guy can sell expensive European iron without lying, more power to him. The stuff IS efficient.

    But to call an Ultimate pressure fired boiler 70% efficient WITHOUT instruments to even know what the heck he's talking about is ignorance.

    To be fair to those that don't know me, I work for a boiler manufacturer. Not any of the ones mentioned in this post, but an american boiler company, just the same.

    Noel

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,708
    You're right Noel..just wonder what the op would be saying about now if he had one of those euro boiler and the same guy working on it.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    483

    Re: Not using instruments...

    Originally posted by Noel Murdough
    This shows that he can't get rated efficiencies out of ANY boiler.

    I'm trying to be gentle, here.

    With $2 plus oil, throw him out. He only has his own interests in mind. He is still tuning burners for 29 cent oil. I believe that those days are gone, and not coming back.

    The proof is in your boiler room.

    Noel
    Exactly, Noel is right on the money. You say that you have had this boiler cleaned and tuned yearly. If so then the boiler should not be plugged with soot. Boilers soot up when the tech sets the flame by eye, or doesn't clean them properly. A new burner isn't gonna do anything for you efficiency wise as you already have a fairly modern flame retention head burner. Although a new burner would come with more modern controls like pre-purge, and an oil solenoid, that would provide you with greater safety and reliability. I think you need to get a new burner guy out there, one that actually cleans and tunes a boiler with instruments. Also for your size house and your location 1000 gals a year sounds about right. Spend the money you would have put into a new system into new energy efficient windows, and insulation upgrades. I'm not that far from you, if you would like to have someone take a look at your burner for you.

    [Edited by jdenyer on 09-26-2005 at 04:27 PM]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,778
    Not possible to set up any oil unit by eye alone.

    This is one of the reasons your getting soot.

    I,m not familiar with your boiler, but you should be able to add an indirect water heater to it, and save some oil.

    Noel, should be better able to tell you.

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