Can geothermal heat be stored in the earth?

[lortech]

This is a interesting question I think, some one asked once but lost the thread. Can radiant heat from heat panels on the roof be stored underground, then retrieved to heat for example the house, or hot water?

Thanks a bunch!

[madhat]

Trane was experimenting with something similiar in the mid 1970s. They were heating a slury that was similiar to concrete, that would never set. I believe the stuff also had a lot of salt in it. The problem was it had to be mixed to distribute the heat evenly, that used almost or more energy than was captured. Don't think they ever found something that had a large BTU storage ability, in a compact size, that didn't have to be mixed.

Horizontal Ground Source heat pumps loops do that to some extent.

[terawatt]

Can radiant heat from heat panels on the roof be stored underground, then retrieved to heat for example the house, or hot water?

You could store some heat in the ground but the losses will be very high. Better to store the heat in water in a well insulated tank. If it needs to be underground, it is possible to have below grade insulated hot water storage. Lots of people heat their home with solar radiant (hydronic) systems, do you have an unusual situation?

[Zeiss Nut]

Drake's Landing Canada

http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm


a solar thermal energy earth storage community

[lortech]

Did you guys read the last paragraph of this document??

http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm

I know, if a medium takes a long time to heat to its maximum heat absobtion potential, it can also take a long time to give off heat. But this last paragraph is interesting. Takes three years to reach maximum heat absorption yet, will give off enough energy after the third year, to heat a house for a entire winter.

I do not know what is the take on this, but I bet physics minded people would like to know.

I wonder what the cost would be to put something like this in?

[Zeiss Nut]

the system is actually has two storage parts. one using Tank filled with glycol mix. another the bore hole fields.

The solar collector has enough capacity to heat up the house and the first storage tanks. but since the bore hole field is vast it act just like giant heat sink. for the first 3 years
the bore hole field capacity is probably in the order of 100x of the first storage tanks

[Gross]

it alreadys happens...via the sun.

if you want more heat transfer, you dont need more heat, you need something that transfers heat better than high density polyethylene.... see www.advgeo.com

[madhat]

I wonder what they do where the ground is acidity, like here in Maryland where it can eat up a "L" pipe in five years. Also how do they protect the system from lightening, and transcents, we've had holes blown in under ground copper pipe at work!

[behappy]

I wonder what they do where the ground is acidity, like here in Maryland where it can eat up a "L" pipe in five years. Also how do they protect the system from lightening, and transcents, we've had holes blown in under ground copper pipe at work!

1) Some type of cathode protection
2) You can't fight mother nature....

[ga-hvac-tech]

I wonder what they do where the ground is acidity, like here in Maryland where it can eat up a "L" pipe in five years. Also how do they protect the system from lightening, and transcents, we've had holes blown in under ground copper pipe at work!

I think I would stick with the water loop... Water (or water/glycol mix) in some kind of plastic or vinyl/plastic or special tubing... probably would last a lot longer than CO directly in contact with the earth.

Someone correct me if I am wrong: A WF system installed by a special contractor (with the proper WF certs) can have a 50 (yes fifty) year warranty on the horiz loop??? That in itself would be worth a lot of the high cost of the install.

Also... I heard WF may be bringing out an inverter drive compressor Geo system sometime in 2012... anyone know anything more about this? Reason I ask is I may be looking at a GEO system in 2014.

[Gross]

I wonder what they do where the ground is acidity, like here in Maryland where it can eat up a "L" pipe in five years. Also how do they protect the system from lightening, and transcents, we've had holes blown in under ground copper pipe at work!

im in maryland and there have been DX systems here for over 20 years without issue. cathodic protection.

[Gross]

I think I would stick with the water loop... Water (or water/glycol mix) in some kind of plastic or vinyl/plastic or special tubing... probably would last a lot longer than CO directly in contact with the earth.

Where do we get copper? The ground? If earth destroys copper, then why do we have copper after 4 billion years?

The copper fields have a LIFETIME warranty on them.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Where do we get copper? The ground? If earth destroys copper, then why do we have copper after 4 billion years?

The copper fields have a LIFETIME warranty on them.

Down here in GA... CO water lines from the street to houses rot after 20-30 years... and no... it is not from the inside out. Folks NEVER replace with CO anymore... always with PVC or some miracle pipe.

BTW: WHO warrants the loop? The warranty is only as good as the co offering it. As I understand it... WF is the one that warrants the loop... (please correct me if I am wrong). Gotta remember: A local contractor may not be there next year... or when he retires... or when his son takes over and chooses to change the name and not honor previous warranties.

IMO: one should always be wary of warranties... rather use old fashioned common sense about them.

[Gross]

Down here in GA... CO water lines from the street to houses rot after 20-30 years... and no... it is not from the inside out. Folks NEVER replace with CO anymore... always with PVC or some miracle pipe.

BTW: WHO warrants the loop? The warranty is only as good as the co offering it. As I understand it... WF is the one that warrants the loop... (please correct me if I am wrong). Gotta remember: A local contractor may not be there next year... or when he retires... or when his son takes over and chooses to change the name and not honor previous warranties.

IMO: one should always be wary of warranties... rather use old fashioned common sense about them.

The system mfr. If you know what you're doing it isn't a provlem

[ga-hvac-tech]

One of the largest players in the metro Atlanta area market changed owners a while back (they used to have most of the 40+ HD stores). The previous owner offered 10yrs parts&labor for years... then sold the co. The new owners do NOT honor the warranty from the old owners customers.

Guess who lost (and who won)...

[Gross]

One of the largest players in the metro Atlanta area market changed owners a while back (they used to have most of the 40+ HD stores). The previous owner offered 10yrs parts&labor for years... then sold the co. The new owners do NOT honor the warranty from the old owners customers.

Guess who lost (and who won)...

Ok? The system manfacturer warrants it... How is it any different if water furnace goes under or the hdpe mfr goes under?

[ga-hvac-tech]

Ok? The system manfacturer warrants it... How is it any different if water furnace goes under or the hdpe mfr goes under?

Really... in my mind it is not.

So to me... we are back to what I think will last and what will not. Just my ... I would trust some blend of plastic/vinyl pipe (maybe pex) over CO; buried in direct contact with the ground.

Again, just my

[Gross]

Really... in my mind it is not.

So to me... we are back to what I think will last and what will not. Just my ... I would trust some blend of plastic/vinyl pipe (maybe pex) over CO; buried in direct contact with the ground.

Again, just my

Well, science and application disagrees w you

[madhat]

This shows the install of the ground loop, shows grouting and back fill with neutral PH sand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC69Vc-mcaQ

This would slow down or stop the corrosive effects of the soil. I would still clean and coat the manifold braze connections.

In 85 I repiped my Grandparents house in Jacksonville FL. Did it under a Great-Uncles plumbing license. I used K from the meter to the Main shut-off at the house. Within eight years it had been replaced. I went down deeper than the original, so it didn't freeze. So this is a universal problem.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well, science and application disagrees w you

Yeah... and Science said global warming was definitely DANGEROUS... Looks like, as usual, it is the way it is interpreted, rather than the so called facts... that is relevant.