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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleun View Post
    EPA/DNR won't allow refrigerant in the ground. and the geo-piping isn't made for such high pressure. And filling miles of pipe with refrigerant isn't cheap.

    Never ever install a horizontal system.
    Ok well you're just plain wrong and uneducated on that. I suggest you research DX geothermal before makIng more assumptions.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhat View Post
    I would think that a direct earth contact DX system would be cheaper to install, and more efficent. In 20 years the technology will have changed enough to warrant installing a totally new system. Even though I have an acre and quarter of yard, I really don't want a very large area dug up for the horizontal loops. I thinking next Fall installing a new system, my mortgage should be paid, off and I can use the rather large escrow to pay for it.
    It does end up using less energy bc there are no pump packs to power and there is no third heat exchanger. Google: Direct exchange geothermal

  3. #29
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    Jul 2006
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    Pretty sure the loop warranty is only on the loop materials
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  4. #30
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleun View Post
    EPA/DNR won't allow refrigerant in the ground. and the geo-piping isn't made for such high pressure. And filling miles of pipe with refrigerant isn't cheap.

    Never ever install a horizontal system.

    Could you elaborate on the highlighted part above, please?


    I am looking into a geo system for my own home and a horizontal system is the way I've been leaning.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Could you elaborate on the highlighted part above, please?


    I am looking into a geo system for my own home and a horizontal system is the way I've been leaning.
    Horizontal systems are the least efficient water source hp's. The shallower you are in the ground, the more temperature swing you have AND the more likely the ground is to dry out.

  6. #32
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Could you elaborate on the highlighted part above, please?


    I am looking into a geo system for my own home and a horizontal system is the way I've been leaning.
    JP...

    I am looking at geo for my home also... will be a few years out.

    I was talking to someone a week or so ago... they said something about the ground getting heat-soaked or cold soaked. What that means is; after years, the efficiency just goes down. I can understand this, makes good sense.

    One thing I keep hearing: Do ALL the proper engineering for the loop before starting construction... and do NOT cut corners.

    Any of the geo contractors know if wells get heat soaked?

    JP... we might need to start a new thread in Pro to talk about geo details.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    JP...


    Any of the geo contractors know if wells get heat soaked?
    sure do, not as fast, but sure do. how often depends on what youre drilling into.

    Had 3 different complaints from customers we put water furnace's in this summer....said they would stop working...sure enough I go out there and they have water temps of almost 100 degrees...called water furnace and they said "thats normal when its really hot"

    i dont sell water source any longer.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gross View Post
    sure do, not as fast, but sure do. how often depends on what youre drilling into.

    Had 3 different complaints from customers we put water furnace's in this summer....said they would stop working...sure enough I go out there and they have water temps of almost 100 degrees...called water furnace and they said "thats normal when its really hot"

    i dont sell water source any longer.
    So how does one work around this 'heat/cold soaking' issue? More loop?

    Also; seems to me if we are transferring heat or cold to soil... it does not matter the medium to carry the heat... what matters is enough soil contact to effectively dissipate the heat/cold. If this is true (suggesting, not stating), then it seems irrelevant which medium is used to carry the heat... what does seem important is enough ground to absorb the heat applied.

    Seems a stream or river would be the best place to transfer heat/cold.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    So how does one work around this 'heat/cold soaking' issue? More loop?

    Also; seems to me if we are transferring heat or cold to soil... it does not matter the medium to carry the heat... what matters is enough soil contact to effectively dissipate the heat/cold. If this is true (suggesting, not stating), then it seems irrelevant which medium is used to carry the heat... what does seem important is enough ground to absorb the heat applied.

    Seems a stream or river would be the best place to transfer heat/cold.
    thats why open loop systems are the most efficiently running water source geo thermal systems

  10. #36
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    now that being said, your spot on. if you have a large enough body of water close by, you can put you loops directly into it

  11. #37
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gross View Post
    thats why open loop systems are the most efficiently running water source geo thermal systems
    I can understand what you say... yet how does one keep an open loop clean (stuff sucked up)?

    How do closed loops work when placed in a flowing stream or lake or river?

    BTW: THX for your input!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #38
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    Aug 2011
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    [QUOTE=ga-hvac-tech;11796102]

    Also; seems to me if we are transferring heat or cold to soil... it does not matter the medium to carry the heat... what matters is enough soil contact to effectively dissipate the heat/cold. If this is true (suggesting, not stating), then it seems irrelevant which medium is used to carry the heat... what does seem important is enough ground to absorb the heat applied.

    QUOTE]

    Thats not completely true and here is why. water, or antifreeze, doesnt transfer heat rapidly. HDPE is an insulator (R-.6 or .8) so its not the best at getting rid of the heat in the first place...now when your ground temp raises, the heat transfer rate stays the same. as the ground warms, so does the water....since the heat goes from refrigerant to copper to plastic to water to plastic to earth, it imperative that you get the absolute best transfer each time. when the ground warms up it REALLY shows on your water temperatures.
    DX on the otherhand only goes from refrigerant to copper to earth...and since copper is a conductor, not an insulator, it doesnt have to over come the heat sink that is the HDPE and the water.

    Even if the earth was 90 degrees, a DX system would work fine....would you mind 90 degree liquid temps?

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I can understand what you say... yet how does one keep an open loop clean (stuff sucked up)?

    How do closed loops work when placed in a flowing stream or lake or river?

    BTW: THX for your input!
    same as any well...drill until its clean...

    http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12650
    that shows you a basic idea of different kinds of water source geo's. Water you do for a field in a body of water is you coil up the hdpe, just like a horizontal field, push it out into the body of water and as you fill it with coolant, it becomes heavy and sinks...you can put weights on it as well.

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