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  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    Rock and Roll was Devil Music back in those days.
    So sayeth Wormwood.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLZ Dan View Post
    I was merely explaining my stance. I was never whining.

    I dont know why you feel if you dont have a belief, a belonging to some higher power, you are worthless. If you work hard to create a life for yourself, develop skills and leave a legacy behind other than "he really didnt do anything", can it be deemed worthless?

    You are born and have X amount of years here. If you devote your life to yourself and turn "I can'ts" into "I dids" and when you die, you can say you did a lot, is it worthless?

    BTW, My first post was that I THINK it's all BS, My opinion and i'm entitled to it. Just as everyone else in this thread is entitled to theirs. I dont see why i, along with other Atheists, am being attacked for my views just because they dont jive with the church-goers. That's not fair.
    I felt you were whining and being disrespectful to others as well. It's all in perception, you know.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #68
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    [QUOTE=RoBoTeq;10493942 So, what's the problem with reading some stories?[/QUOTE]

    Nothing. But to spawn a cult following with people willing to kill over the beliefs, is madness.

    In that case, Jedi should be a legitimate religion. People who worship Satan should be able to sell their music in a 3 CD set on TV just like the Christians do. Fair is fair.

    I'm all for stories, i'm a big fan of Greek mythology because it shows how people made sense of what was going on around them back then. Why do the seasons change? Because the Earth revolves around the Sun at different distances? Nah, The God of the Underworld tricked the daughter of the Goddess of Nature into marrying him and during the fall and winter she must stay with him,but in the the spring she is able to come back to her mother. Much more fun, plus back then noone was thinking scientifically.

    But today nobody believes in the Greek gods.
    Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I felt you were whining and being disrespectful to others as well. It's all in perception, you know.
    Then my apologies of course.
    Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLZ Dan View Post
    Nothing. But to spawn a cult following with people willing to kill over the beliefs, is madness.

    In that case, Jedi should be a legitimate religion. People who worship Satan should be able to sell their music in a 3 CD set on TV just like the Christians do. Fair is fair.

    I'm all for stories, i'm a big fan of Greek mythology because it shows how people made sense of what was going on around them back then. Why do the seasons change? Because the Earth revolves around the Sun at different distances? Nah, The God of the Underworld tricked the daughter of the Goddess of Nature into marrying him and during the fall and winter she must stay with him,but in the the spring she is able to come back to her mother. Much more fun, plus back then noone was thinking scientifically.

    But today nobody believes in the Greek gods.
    I agree that cult followings condoning hatred and murder is not acceptable to be culled from Biblical writings. Those who truly do adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ do not condone murder and some Christians do not even condone killing for socially justifiable reasons.

    I also agree that the study of Greek mythology for the purpose of understanding nature is wonderful. These teachings are the same from the Bible. The only difference is that one God entity with no man created image of is responsible for all of nature, including the laws of nature that we as mere mortals would do best to pay attention to. These, along with morality and ethical teachings, are all part of what the Bible has to teach us.

    Once we get past the visual imagery we have created and the names we have devised, there is not really a lot of difference in the teachings of Pagan mythology and Judeo-Christian scripture. We are arguing over how many names God has and the physical imagery of God. Man created the imagery of the gods, but God has no physical image.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #71
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    DLZ
    I dont know why you feel if you dont have a belief, a belonging to some higher power, you are worthless. If you work hard to create a life for yourself, develop skills and leave a legacy behind other than "he really didnt do anything", can it be deemed worthless?
    I don't know, I suppose one could re-define purpose or worth and find some temporary mental comfort between the time of their earthly consciousness and the time they are on the other side of the dirt, but believing what you believe you may carry time to it's ultimate conclusion and realize it don't mean squat. I'll assume you believe that the earth has an expiration date and when it comes all that you and all others have accomplished will be wiped out permanently from existance never to be missed, remembered, never to have any purpose, meaning or worth to the universe. Your destiny and your legacy evaporates to utter emptiness.

    purpose [ˈpɜːpəs]
    n
    1. the reason for which anything is done, created, or exists

    worth 1 (wûrth)
    n.
    1. The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable

    When all you and others have done ceases to exist, what is it worth?

    You are born and have X amount of years here. If you devote your life to yourself and turn "I can'ts" into "I dids" and when you die, you can say you did a lot, is it worthless?
    Ultimately...yes.

    When you die and everyone you know dies, and the earth is engulfed into our sun eventually, what good is your "dids"

    BTW, My first post was that I THINK it's all BS, My opinion and i'm entitled to it. Just as everyone else in this thread is entitled to theirs. I dont see why i, along with other Atheists, am being attacked for my views just because they dont jive with the church-goers. That's not fair.
    This is one of your many whines. Who's attacking you. Pointing out what you believe and bringing it to it's final conclusion is not attacking you. It's simply telling the truth isn't it?
    You have not demonstrated why your life is ultimately worth anything. Using your belief system it's you that's on attack. Whether you comprehend the implications of what you believe or not, you are calling my life worthless, but I'm not whining about it because I don't believe that. I'm just trying to get you to think a little bit. I've not said anything religious to you. If you are not talking about me, then who's attacking you?

    These words can also be considered whining and disrespect or a combination of the two.

    DLZ
    I thought one of the rules was RESPECT. No one said your invisible man cult was worthless
    .

    DLZ
    Everytime someone decides to have an intelligent conversation about non-religion, somebody has to decide to play minister.
    DLZ
    "the word", it's called a virus
    .


    DLZ
    It sounds like the bible-thumpers are getting a little miffed because we wont join their super cool club
    .

    DLZ
    Note the air of superiority in their wording
    :

    : DLZ
    I dont push Atheism on anyone, DONT PUSH YOUR BULL**** ON ME!
    DLZ People for too long have lumped in Atheists with Satanists and thats just not so.
    "You Atheists"
    " Worthless hippies"

    DLZ
    I didnt want this thread to get to a heated mud-slinging, but it seems like the religious folk just had to have it that way.
    I don't know..I could be wrong, but that there sounds like a whole heap of whining.

  7. #72
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    Since the OP has admitted to a theological belief system, Paganism, let's start with the basics; Do you believe the Universe to be of intelligent design or having come about by happenstance by the use of materials from unknown origins?

    Now, Atheists are mentioned, and a true atheists would fall into the catagory of not believing in an intelligent design of the universe. For arguments sake, let's dismiss the atheist for the time being. After all, they aren't supposed to believe in anything theological, so why whould they even want to discuss what they do not believe exists?

    That leaves those of us who do believe that the Universe is of intelligent design. That includes Pagans and monotheists alike. For discussion sake, let's assume that there is and always has been one specific Creator of the Universe, or one God.

    All beliefs are the perceptions of man's ability to rationalize what we experience. With the Creator of the Universe being so omnipotent, it is easy to see how man would imagine God to be several different and seperate beings, seeming to clash with one another. That would be man's innability to understand God's plan and God's will. The plan, I believe as Deist's do, is a set design of the nature of each planet, flora and fauna, including man. The one difference is that man has been created in the image of the Creator in the man has free will and is himself a creator.

    Being creators, man created the the gods. Man did not create God, who Created man, but man created gods from our misunderstanding of God. I don't see a major concern with this.

    The Judeo-Christian scriptures site that God warns us of being like the pagans. In the instances that these warnings are made, the pagans referred to are those who are worshipping evil, which is in essence the absence of God. The evil Greek gods were Chthonian, the evil Hindu goddess Kali was sort of evil, the Romans had Ades, which is more then likely a takeoff of the Greek Hades since Romans borrowed much of Greek mythology to enhance their beliefs in good and evil spirits. The Biblical nemesis of God was Baal, who it seems caused God's people to mostly commit sexual sins against God's Created nature.

    All in all, whether Pagan or Monotheistic, it is all about God communicating with man and man's perception of God. There is nothing new under the Sun.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #73
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    So what do you call the belief that all of what we know will be sucked into a black hole so why do anything? Morbid

    I make the most out of every day I'm alive and THAT is what is worth it to me. I could care less if the sun descends on us tomorrow, I'll know that i lived the best i could and accept it. I know now bright light and bearded man is going to save us.

    So at what point did i ruffle your panties? Your original post was:

    Does the worthlessness of you pagans existence ever get to you.? Just wondering? If that doesn't sound aggressive and condescending, i don't know what does.

    You might as well have said: How much does it suck to not think the way we do?

    You came into this saying that our existence is worthless and because i am the primary one to oppose you and try to offer an explanation, you say I'm whining. I am someone who can see things from both side of the fence, although i don't agree with it, i understand it. Perhaps you don't and that is what is causing all of your hostility.

    Maybe you should take a lesson from me. Be tolerant of those who may not think the same as you but are as adamant about where they stand as you are.
    Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.

  9. #74
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    Since we are all born with an unknown expiration date, whether or not we get sucked into a black hole, hit by a car or die of a heart attack at some convention doesn't really matter, does it?

    The very fact that our mortal existance is temporary is one of the reasons it makes so much more sense to me that we are spiritual in nature and that our mortal lives are just temporary segments of our true spiritual lives. As has been said long ago, "Everything is meaningless, utterly meaningless."

    It also seems that by living in accordance to how Biblical scripture tells us to live makes our lives in this mortal existance a better one, no matter what our social situation is. So, the more we live in accordance to God's will, the better mortal lives we can have while preparing our spiritual selves for the next step in our spiritual lives.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It also seems that by living in accordance to how Biblical scripture tells us to live makes our lives in this mortal existance a better one, no matter what our social situation is. So, the more we live in accordance to God's will, the better mortal lives we can have while preparing our spiritual selves for the next step in our spiritual lives.
    It's better in your opinion.

    But if you just live in accordance to YOUR will? Making the proper decisions based on you accpting the possible outcomes, good or bad, without following a book of rules?

    I guess what i'm saying is do good because it's the right thing to do, not because it's in Psalm so and so.

    Better yourself and the people around you because that is what's right. Not because it's "His Will". You know what im saying?
    Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLZ Dan View Post
    It's better in your opinion.

    But if you just live in accordance to YOUR will? Making the proper decisions based on you accpting the possible outcomes, good or bad, without following a book of rules?

    I guess what i'm saying is do good because it's the right thing to do, not because it's in Psalm so and so.

    Better yourself and the people around you because that is what's right. Not because it's "His Will". You know what im saying?
    The problem is that man is prone to do evil. We do not always know how to determine what is right from what is wrong. Since our will is a gift from God, it just seems to me that making choices that adhere to God's will makes more sense then doing what we think is right if it goes against what is written as God's will.

    It just sounds to me that you want to be a rebel without a cause just because something is written in scripture.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaygetz View Post
    I'm the one at the back of the church...hacking a new door into the wall with my Leatherman Charge....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iJ4ySMuizU
    Got to love Ray Stevens. The only snakes I ever handled were the ones I dispatched with a big stick while putting up hay. Rattlers are calm. Copperheads would just a soon kill ya as look at ya. prost
    Signature on hold. Trying to find a real Jefferson quote I like. Others here have bogus Jefferson quotes too.

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLZ Dan View Post
    So what do you call the belief that all of what we know will be sucked into a black hole so why do anything? Morbid

    I make the most out of every day I'm alive and THAT is what is worth it to me. I could care less if the sun descends on us tomorrow, I'll know that i lived the best i could and accept it. I know now bright light and bearded man is going to save us.

    So at what point did i ruffle your panties? Your original post was:

    Does the worthlessness of you pagans existence ever get to you.? Just wondering? If that doesn't sound aggressive and condescending, i don't know what does.

    You might as well have said: How much does it suck to not think the way we do?

    You came into this saying that our existence is worthless and because i am the primary one to oppose you and try to offer an explanation, you say I'm whining. I am someone who can see things from both side of the fence, although i don't agree with it, i understand it. Perhaps you don't and that is what is causing all of your hostility.

    Maybe you should take a lesson from me. Be tolerant of those who may not think the same as you but are as adamant about where they stand as you are.
    Oh boy, more whining.

    Look, I've already told you that my question was not intended to be offensive, it's an honest question. In any case I have my answer. It does not bother you because you don't really think about it or you are happy to be alive and are quite content in the knowledge that your accomplishments, contributions, and those of others ultimately amount to nothing in accordance with your belief system.
    You just live your life and try to have a good time before you, all of your thoughts and consciousness evaporate along with everyone elses throughout the ages.
    In keeping with your belief system, you are saying the same thing about me, I'm worthless. It's no big deal and I don't take offense to it because I think you are wrong. I can't prove it, but neither can you.

    You sound like someone who is insecure about the realities of your belief system. Either that or you are in denial.

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