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  1. #131
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussellHarju View Post
    To be honest I don't know why the high price myself. It could be simple as the alternative is hundreds vs. only one hundred for theirs. Or it may be difficult to reproduce something with such strict tolerances. The little vial you are talking about doesn't have a standard leak rate so it can be produced much cheaper. Either way we are looking into to it because you know as well as I do it would be a very useful gadget.
    Yes, who knows. I'm sure you'll sort it out.

    I wanted to mention, I think it's great, and really smart business move that FP has a presence here. Good for you, good for contractors. Keep asking questions, looking for needs in product lines. I think you guys have enormous potential for growth. You could split product lines and develop some novel, innovative tools for HVAC.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.


    Two pressures, four temperatures = SUCCESS!


    Boulder Heating Contractor


    For Consumers:

    For HVACR Professionals:


  2. #132
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NW IL.
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    3,935
    Thanks Russ. It is a pretty neat tool. I imagine that when they test the flow rate they may have some failures due to the small rate involved. I just like being able to test the sniffer with any refrigerant.
    Aircraft Mechanical Accessories Technician. The Air Force changed the job title to Air Craft Environmental Systems Technician. But I've decided I'll always be a Mech Acc.

  3. #133
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Fullerton
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    774
    Quote Originally Posted by MechAcc View Post
    Thanks Russ. It is a pretty neat tool. I imagine that when they test the flow rate they may have some failures due to the small rate involved. I just like being able to test the sniffer with any refrigerant.
    What's that function worth to you?

  4. #134
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Anaheim, CA
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    153
    Quote Originally Posted by MechAcc View Post
    Thanks Russ. It is a pretty neat tool. I imagine that when they test the flow rate they may have some failures due to the small rate involved. I just like being able to test the sniffer with any refrigerant.
    Ok...Couple/Few questions...

    Exactly how would people use this? Do you want to test to make sure your sniffer is working before you go out on a job looking for a leak or something else? How often would you do this? Would this have any other use for technicians?

    If you want to use this device to test your sniffer, how are you performing this function now without this device?

    Would it be worth $75?, $100?, $150?, $200? to be able to perform this function? (just trying to understand what the cut points are)

    What if you just had one that stayed at the shop for everyone to use when they wanted to?

  5. #135
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NW IL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussellHarju View Post
    What's that function worth to you?
    Have to weigh the cost of one LS-4 vs buying a reference leak vial annually. Which depending upon type may run $ 35 to $ 50The LS-4 may pay for itself in 3,4,or 5 years.

    As said mine was a present so I don't have the dollar (British pound) cost of the LS-4. I may be too low in this estimate but depending on manufacturing costs $ 100 to $140 for such a tool would not be out of line.

    If this item costs more than that I would throw in added benefit of calibrating sniffer with the system refrigerant as an added plus because then my time is not being wasted trying to find a leak with a sniffer that will not detect low levels of a refrigerant. Might go to $ 175
    Aircraft Mechanical Accessories Technician. The Air Force changed the job title to Air Craft Environmental Systems Technician. But I've decided I'll always be a Mech Acc.

  6. #136
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    Jul 2000
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    NW IL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ault51 View Post
    Ok...Couple/Few questions...

    Exactly how would people use this? Do you want to test to make sure your sniffer is working before you go out on a job looking for a leak or something else? How often would you do this? Would this have any other use for technicians?

    If you want to use this device to test your sniffer, how are you performing this function now without this device?

    Would it be worth $75?, $100?, $150?, $200? to be able to perform this function? (just trying to understand what the cut points are)

    What if you just had one that stayed at the shop for everyone to use when they wanted to?

    Good points Ault. Many use up the reference vial that may have come with their sniffer and never replaced it.

    Some detectors never came with a leak reference and the technician purchasing the detector are unaware of a leak reference.

    So many are not testing their sniffers or they are cracking the valve on a refrigerant cylinder an do gross leak test on it. Then cannot find small leaks with afterwards. By testing against a referenced leak they would find that they need to clean or replace tip filters or the sensor is deteriorating in strength. Time is money.
    Aircraft Mechanical Accessories Technician. The Air Force changed the job title to Air Craft Environmental Systems Technician. But I've decided I'll always be a Mech Acc.

  7. #137
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    Mar 2006
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    Denver/Boulder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ault51 View Post
    Ok...Couple/Few questions...

    Exactly how would people use this? Do you want to test to make sure your sniffer is working before you go out on a job looking for a leak or something else? How often would you do this? Would this have any other use for technicians?
    Primary for me would be to pre test the leak detector against the refrigerant I'm testing for, in the field. there are many times I wonder about the current condition of the leak detector and this would verify it. The other thing I worry about are false positives, but that's not on topic.

    If you want to use this device to test your sniffer, how are you performing this function now without this device?
    in the field, I use whatever's handy- refrigerant ports, virgin jugs, recovery tanks, manifold gauges. You can usually find something that's giving off a little bit, but you never know how large or small it is, unless it's spewing out refrigerant, in which case it makes the test almost completely pointless. I want a SMALL leak, not a big one.
    Would it be worth $75?, $100?, $150?, $200? to be able to perform this function? (just trying to understand what the cut points are)
    As I said before, $60 seems to be the top for me, others will vary. I think a big part of it is in the confidence you get with your instrument. There's always another way to test, see my post above on my old evap coil.

    What if you just had one that stayed at the shop for everyone to use when they wanted to?
    Not for me I don't think. I sort of makes sense for bigger shops though.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.


    Two pressures, four temperatures = SUCCESS!


    Boulder Heating Contractor


    For Consumers:

    For HVACR Professionals:


  8. #138
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NW IL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darctangent View Post
    Let me jump in Russell.

    I'd love to have one and at let's say at 20-25 I think it would sell very well, although I could see an attempt to price them at twice that. I guess in the end I would be happy to buy one at 35-40

    It should come with a small case to keep it from getting crap in it. I'm assuming it's a simple device except for the challenge of quality control on the hole size/leak rate.

    The one given to me did come in a small storage container.
    Aircraft Mechanical Accessories Technician. The Air Force changed the job title to Air Craft Environmental Systems Technician. But I've decided I'll always be a Mech Acc.

  9. #139
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    In the work truck
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    2,997
    Russell I would buy one. Personally I would like to see it come in around $50..

    But as others said I have no idea about manufacturing costs..
    Gotta have the right tool for the job!

    Where is all the stuff MADE IN THE USA?

    "Thats what we do Troy. Incredible, Invisible, Imbelivable things. We are an Unseen, Unknown, Unvincible fraternity of craftsman.."

  10. #140
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fullerton
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pascone10 View Post
    Russell I would buy one. Personally I would like to see it come in around $50..

    But as others said I have no idea about manufacturing costs..
    Thanks to all your responses. We will continue to look into it.

  11. #141
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    May 2009
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    In the Hudson Valley of New York
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    What is this magic leak rate device? Will we be able to screw it on to our own cylinders? I would think a 1/4" fitting with some sintered metal in it, could be restricted to a miniscule leak for testing our detectors?

  12. #142
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    Jul 2000
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    NW IL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneTheJeep View Post
    What is this magic leak rate device? Will we be able to screw it on to our own cylinders? I would think a 1/4" fitting with some sintered metal in it, could be restricted to a miniscule leak for testing our detectors?
    Yes. It screws onto a refrigerant cylinder. Has 1/4" flare connection. See video that I posted on the one I tested.
    Aircraft Mechanical Accessories Technician. The Air Force changed the job title to Air Craft Environmental Systems Technician. But I've decided I'll always be a Mech Acc.

  13. #143
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    May 2009
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    In the Hudson Valley of New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechAcc View Post
    Yes. It screws onto a refrigerant cylinder. Has 1/4" flare connection. See video that I posted on the one I tested.
    The ZX-1 took a long time and alot of persistence, I would have never found a real leak with the ZX-1, throw that one in the trash.

    The FP was quick and passed the test.

    The D-Tek was quick and passed the test.

    Sensit was quick and passed the test.

    Inficon was slow but passed the test.

    YJ throw that one in the trash.

    Tek-mate throw that one in the trash.

    H-10 was quick and passed the test.

    Good test, now we know what detectors work and which ones don't of the few that were tested.

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