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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Aust chiltech View Post
    .

    i have used a very small amount of 515 on the flat gaskets but you have to be careful on tensioning down that you dont push them out.



    .
    And you didnt clue in as to why they pushed out and continued to leak ???
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    81
    Economiser, suction elbow etc, just pay a proper insulation tradesperson to carryout work, vapour seal no air, no corrosion.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North FL.
    Posts
    206
    Rover that is very true, but on the same token I've ran into variable different problems with having a machine re-insulated by a profes. Etc etc .... I've went so far as to when wire wheeling flanges as rolling over the outside edge a little to give me at least 1/4" of clean surface on the outside edge of flanges on the evap to suct elbow and the econo to evap joints. Also on the flange surface if rusted badly the wire wheel may not remove all the rust and I'll have to ping it off with a small hammer & chisel then complete the wire wheeling. Scotch brite pad and degreaser til clean. Reassm, proper torque & sequence. Prior to recharging chiller I apply a nice coat of never seize to the outside surface areas to those to joints before re-insulating. Now with that said, it has personally helped me with trouble machines I've repaired over the last seventeen years. Just a few more minutes and I haven't heard of any other mech raising cane about getting any silver grade anti seize on them. Just trying to prevent moisture from getting to the joints them self in which has main problem for me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by henpeck View Post
    Rover that is very true, but on the same token I've ran into variable different problems with having a machine re-insulated by a profes. Etc etc .... I've went so far as to when wire wheeling flanges as rolling over the outside edge a little to give me at least 1/4" of clean surface on the outside edge of flanges on the evap to suct elbow and the econo to evap joints. Also on the flange surface if rusted badly the wire wheel may not remove all the rust and I'll have to ping it off with a small hammer & chisel then complete the wire wheeling. Scotch brite pad and degreaser til clean. Reassm, proper torque & sequence. Prior to recharging chiller I apply a nice coat of never seize to the outside surface areas to those to joints before re-insulating. Now with that said, it has personally helped me with trouble machines I've repaired over the last seventeen years. Just a few more minutes and I haven't heard of any other mech raising cane about getting any silver grade anti seize on them. Just trying to prevent moisture from getting to the joints them self in which has main problem for me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Never seize, not a problem , I have heard of trane factory techs saying a wire wheel is TOO abrasive at flange faces ??. Regarding reassembly torque and sequence, is that really a problem?? would have thought both faces machined identically flat at trane factory, not like we are installing a valve in water pipework were nothings square due to the young boy installing flanges wrong

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheChillerMan View Post
    We use Dow111 grease for the elbow to suction cover o-ring. (I also use this grease on RTHC/D oil filter o-rings. with the oil filter mounted in the vertical, it can be difficult to get the o-ring to stay in place while installing the oil filter. Dow111 is very thick and holds the o-ring quite well.) As for the suction ell to suction cover, you don't want any 515 because of sticking vanes, so the Dow111 is perfect.

    As far as tightening the bolts on the suction ell, there is an exact procedure for proper tightening and it can be found in the Installation/ disassemble-reassemble manual CVHE-SVN04A-EN.

    From the manual:
    Tighten two retaining bolts, 180
    degrees apart at the compressor
    connection. Then tighten two
    bolts, 180 degrees apart at the
    evaporator connection. Alternate
    between connections until all
    retaining bolts are tight. Table 3 illustrates the
    bolt tightening sequence and
    provides bolt torque
    specifications.


    Table 3 in the manual gives a great visual illustration of the sequence. And don't forget to properly torque the bolts! Use these techniques and you'll have a leak free suction ell.

    As for the economizer, join the club, those bastards leak all the time. But everyone else has been right on with their advice. More bolt holes in the flanges, be very very clean, put nothing on flat gaskets, and use proper torque for the bolts, and use grade 8 bolts.
    Are they using goretex tape on elbow to compressor these days??

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Queensland, Aust
    Posts
    12
    Rover,
    never had a flange leak when using small amount of 515 and tension on flanges, only pushes out if you go stupid with the tools,


    In regard to the flange sequence, it is very important as it will pull the front of the compressor down or to side incorrectly if done wrong. I have seen all the interstage seals badly damaged because a technician pulled elbow down wrong.
    machined flanges...yes, after they welded to elbow...nope. have seen some with wrap or 'pull' from heat of welding that you can see with your eye.

    I had alot of machines even with good insulation that have corroded on the flange surface, we remove the elbow and have the face of the flange skimmed about 5 thou to clean surface and ensure square, some though you need to cut the flange off and re-weld it because there is not enough movement and will pull compressor too much.

    Also with the goretex, most machines I have seen still have it in place, even new 'o' ringless machines.

    These suction elbows are some of the most frustrating parts on these machines

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Aust chiltech View Post
    Rover,
    never had a flange leak when using small amount of 515 and tension on flanges, only pushes out if you go stupid with the tools,


    In regard to the flange sequence, it is very important as it will pull the front of the compressor down or to side incorrectly if done wrong. I have seen all the interstage seals badly damaged because a technician pulled elbow down wrong.
    machined flanges...yes, after they welded to elbow...nope. have seen some with wrap or 'pull' from heat of welding that you can see with your eye.

    I had alot of machines even with good insulation that have corroded on the flange surface, we remove the elbow and have the face of the flange skimmed about 5 thou to clean surface and ensure square, some though you need to cut the flange off and re-weld it because there is not enough movement and will pull compressor too much.

    Also with the goretex, most machines I have seen still have it in place, even new 'o' ringless machines.

    These suction elbows are some of the most frustrating parts on these machines
    Carrier or york never had this problem with there chillers, maybe Trane go to single stage , then casing movement horizontally and vertically at elbow lockdown wouldn't be a problem.

    Can anyone provide documentation to support this .

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Queensland, Aust
    Posts
    12
    Rover
    I will dig up my overhaul manuals and scan the pages. PM your email and happy to send over. cheers

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    17
    I had an same older machine with four bolt flanges that were in bad shape. I had the gaskets made out of a garlock type of material and used them instead of the rubber gaskets.
    Check to make sure the gasket material is compatible with the refrigerant the machine uses.

  10. #23
    new trane machines have the thinner flanges and gaskets replaced by a thick, approx 1.5 inches, flange and a gasket simmilar to what you find on a recip head or valve plate, this is always an option to upgrade but that means a bit of welding and fitting of the new flanges.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    59
    okay guys, its been a long time since I've been on this forum and I figured I would share the solution to the leaking gaskets and o-rings on the Trane chillers with you. You need to totally submerse the entire chiller in river water for 4-5 days and this will seal your leaks. this happened to us during super storm sandy and we haven't had leaks since. We went from leaks every 6 months, to not one in almost 2 years.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North FL.
    Posts
    206
    We need pics

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