Trane O-rings/ gasket leaks
I have a 1900 ton Trane and every two years we need to replace the suction elbow O-rings and the economizer gaskets. Does anyone else have this problem?
Never seen that before. Are you putting Loctite 515 on the o-rings? If not that's where I would start. Also make sure Trane is not giving you incompatible o-rings for R-123.
It might get loud!
515 on the orings but NOTHING on the gaskets...oh, and don't put any 515 on the suction elbow to suction cover oring.
as for the economizer gaskets, there are many reasons for them to leak. parallel flange faces are important. you need at least 8 bolts (i would think that on a 1900 ton unit there would be at least 12 bolts) on the economizer flanges. if you don't have that many, you may need to add them.
YOU GOT TO HAVE CLEAN GASKETS AND CLEAN FLANGES AND CLEAN HANDS!!!
i see most guys have hands that looked like they were dipped in oil and dirt and then wonder why the gaskets 'squish' out and call trane engineering as 'stupid'.
ditto on the refrigerant/gasket compatiblity. trane offers 2 gaskets...1 for R11 and 1 for R123. the R11 gaskets are cheaper than the R123 gaskets, but you can only use them on R11. this just adds confusion to everyone. i wish they would only offer the R123 gaskets which are ok with R11 and eliminate the issue.
Install the retrofit flange kit on the lower econo flanges. No liquid of any kind on flat gaskets. That means degrease and blow dry the crack between the flange and pipe. Scuff flat gaskets with sandpaper. Find reason for suction ell leak. Did rust penetrate beyound the o ring? If so anything you can do to keep the rust out will extend regasket time. All rust should be removed from surfaces. Add another bead of 515 to the outer edge to completely fill the gap. Use the teflon string on the upper suction ell flange in addition to the o ring. Oil or grease stg 1 vanes where they fit to suction cover to prevent sealant from sticking in the joint. Degrease all joints before applying 515. Entire o ring must wet with 515. I use enough 515 so that a bit oozes out of the joint all the way around. Use proper bolt tightening sequence on bolts to make suction ell as close fitting as possible. Use plenty of paint on outside of machine. Start with a coat of glyptal while evacuating. Insulate cold areas to keep moisture out. Original gaskets last about 10 years. Regaskets can last nearly as long with attention to detail. Flat gaskets do shrink. Periodic snugging of flat gaskets (don't overtighten so that gasket squishes out) and painting if done before rust penetrates will extend joint life. These ideas are not all what the factory recommends but I have found them to work over time.
dow 111, works great on orings for suction elbow to suction cover, i always use denatured alchol to clean flange surfaces never had a problem
thanks everyone. The economizer flanges aren't 100 % aligned but the flange kit i would think is really expensive. your talking cutting, welding and then custom gaskets?
OK Jay, why no 515 on the suction cover to suction ell? You have to put something on it because it is the shallowest groove and the ring won't stay. Especially since it often has to slide into place as the ell is coming down. I pack the vanes with vac grease so that the 515 won't get in and stick them in place.
You hit the nail on the head for why Trane tells you not to use 515 on they suction ell, (first stg vanes getting stuck) although maybe the vac grease trick will work. Trane suggests vac grease on the suction ell orings and the teflon gasket stuff on the flange face.
Originally Posted by jemawalton
i use a vacuum grease on that o-ring. yeah, you gotta grease it! i have only heard of stories where 515 got into the vanes...if i do that, then you know i will be the one that has to go back.
Originally Posted by jemawalton
We use Dow111 grease for the elbow to suction cover o-ring. (I also use this grease on RTHC/D oil filter o-rings. with the oil filter mounted in the vertical, it can be difficult to get the o-ring to stay in place while installing the oil filter. Dow111 is very thick and holds the o-ring quite well.) As for the suction ell to suction cover, you don't want any 515 because of sticking vanes, so the Dow111 is perfect.
As far as tightening the bolts on the suction ell, there is an exact procedure for proper tightening and it can be found in the Installation/ disassemble-reassemble manual CVHE-SVN04A-EN.
From the manual:
Tighten two retaining bolts, 180
degrees apart at the compressor
connection. Then tighten two
bolts, 180 degrees apart at the
evaporator connection. Alternate
between connections until all
retaining bolts are tight. Table 3 illustrates the
bolt tightening sequence and
provides bolt torque
Table 3 in the manual gives a great visual illustration of the sequence. And don't forget to properly torque the bolts! Use these techniques and you'll have a leak free suction ell.
As for the economizer, join the club, those bastards leak all the time. But everyone else has been right on with their advice. More bolt holes in the flanges, be very very clean, put nothing on flat gaskets, and use proper torque for the bolts, and use grade 8 bolts.
Yawn ,yawn , yawn ........
This subject comes up nearly as often as RTAA oil flow diagnostics !!!!!!!!!!!!! Can we not talk about something else ????????
those bastards leak all the time
Only if you dont do the prep correctly .
The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .
I have seen same problem due to the corrosion on the econ flanges and also we are seeing alot of elbow leaks due to corrosion. we located are im in alot of humid weather so doesnt help.
as the other guys said, clean surfaces and good prep works. i have used a very small amount of 515 on the flat gaskets but you have to be careful on tensioning down that you dont push them out.
when i worked at Trane we had it drummed into us to do a spanner check every year on the flat gasket, just a light nip up and check even. machines were tight with no leaks when attention to detail maintained.
can use a small amount of 515 on the suction cover to elbow BUT do not use too much if you dont have the gortex seal to install just inside of oring.
Regarding the econmizer, we've had 100% leak stoppage by using a non-trane teflon gasket and adding stainless steel studs instead of bolts on cooler to economizer flange.
A LITTLE BIT OF STUPID GOES A LONG WAY!