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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    1,133
    I don't like the honeywell stats on sale at Lowes either.
    But I do enjoy the money I make when homeowner has to call me to come A) wire the thing so their unit will run, and/or B) Pay me to install a new transformer and wire their spiffy new t-stat so it won't blow the transformer and their unit will run.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,903
    I'm sure that the majority of diy honeywell stats are correctly installed - hydrocarbon refrigerant and leak stop on the other hand, can't be used correctly, period.

    Hydrocarbon refrigerants are sold because real refrigerants can't be purchased without a license, yet, 152a/143a/134a can be purchased and vented into the atmosphere by anyone in this form...

    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,806
    Heck at 1 time ANYONE could go to any major HVAC supply house here in ONTARIO and buy REGRIGERANTS, they paid list $, no discount but it was available.


    Building owners , homeowners had their own GAS when it came time to charge the system.

    Had 1 office building that looked like a DUPONT warehouse , maint mgr got a DEAL on DRUMS of Freon for the 2 Trane Centravac's they had.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    374
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTechNC View Post
    Yes, but not entirely true. I also dont like homeowners getting ahold of this kind of stuff becaues it is a bit of a slap in the face... Its like decades of experience, proper tools, training, licensing, ect is unnessicary for HIM (this friggin yokel here) who will just pick up a can of "frosty fog" and dump it in and all will be well... I dont think I can perform surgery just because I can buy a scalpel and a bit of reciprocity from "Mr. fix it" would be appreciated. These people really think that what holds them back from being able to fix their own systems is access to refrigerant or tools or something, not their TOTAL lack of experience.
    just a thought that i'm sure has been raised many times on here. do you work on your own cars? are you a certified auto mechanic? i manage a supply house (wholesale) and i will not sell to unliscesened people, but i will send them across the street where they can buy the same parts retail.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by ReeferTechy View Post
    Funny thing that propane is heavier then air. I'm liking the thought of people's leaky vehicle A/Cs pooling propane under there cars. Great idea.
    How about a condenser full of hot, high pressure propane gas mounted on the front of your car during an accident?

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,339
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyM View Post
    How about a condenser full of hot, high pressure propane gas mounted on the front of your car during an accident?
    One would hope that this stuff is at least tested. Propane systems have been around for years. It is just that the car issue is new....I first heard of this stuff six years ago. I have never read or heard of a car going boom because of the propane in it.....
    Never give up; Never surrender!

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,806
    CAR GO BOOM


    What would the impact of and "incident level, once every 50 years" ignited automobile compartment leakage actually be?
    In terms of the "impact", it is important to recognize that automobiles generally have 12-15 ounces of DURACOOL® refrigerant. If there were a full amount leak into an automobile compartment and it ignited, it would theoretically create a "flash" which would last 1-1.5 seconds.
    There are eminent Risk Assessment Reports available which document the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioning systems.

    What is the difference between regular propane and the refrigerant propane that is used to manufacture the DURACOOL® products?
    The propane that is regularly used for barbecues, and general consumer or commercial use is a by product or deritive of the hydrocarbon manufacturing process (the production and refining of raw oil products). The propane used for standard applications (such as your home barbecue). In order to utilize the product as "refrigerant grade" the product is further refined to render out methane gases and other impurities. This refrigerant propane is different in many ways, most notably is the disparity in the auto ignition. Essentially this refining makes the product safer and more stable. The Auto ignition for regular grade propane is ~842 F., while the DURACOOL® products auto ignition is ~1635 F.

    Why does DURACOOL® have the scent of propane?
    The additive "ethyl mercaptin" is actually a stenching agent that is added for safety reasons. Mercaptan, as it is commonly known, is added to natural gas, propane, butane and virtually all gases as an agent that will alert the user to any leakage. The addition of mercapan should be viewed as a safety feature (see below). Mercaptan is also condensable in the AC system and can not limit performance in any way and will not negatively impact components. The mercaptan smell is not detectable under regular working conditions or under normal install conditions.

    Note: It is important to recognize that, whether a refrigerant is toxic or flammable, the risk of leakage into the automobile compartment is very, very minimal. The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the drivers family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with
    R-134a. Overall, the safety aspects of the DURACOOL® Refrigerants by far outweigh those of the toxic alternatives available today.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by illdoit View Post
    just a thought that i'm sure has been raised many times on here. do you work on your own cars? are you a certified auto mechanic? i manage a supply house (wholesale) and i will not sell to unliscesened people, but i will send them across the street where they can buy the same parts retail.
    Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

    Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

    Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Winston-Salem NC
    Posts
    1,133
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTechNC View Post
    Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

    Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

    Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.
    Really?
    Neither me nor my business partner are mechanics, but when his GF's minivan blew the front oil seal, we managed to fix it in about 15 hours, where Chilton said it should take around 8 or 9.
    And that included just about jerking the engine. Not to mention having to pull the timing belt.

    But I agree most people not in the field should not be messing with systems, just because they'll screw them up.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    870
    Fixing DIY repairs is very profitable.

    A customer changed out the condenser fan motor and miswired it to the contactor. His mistake sent 120v through motor into the 24v control circuit, frying the contactor, the control voltage transformer and the furnace controller. Cause and effect, chain of events.... results? smoking....

    I replaced the fried components and cleaned the filthy condenser coil that contributed to the failed fan motor. He still had the original motor, his replacement was nominally the correct size but didn't match on all the specs. He wanted to risk it using it since he already purchased it.
    His new motor ran for about an hour before overheating, of course I was called back to replace it. When I returned the next day... he had already purchased the correct motor and I installed it for him.


    The total price of this disaster was 3x the flat rate to solve the original issue he fixed.

    Some AC work is simple, much of it seems simple but isn't and has expensive and sometimes lethal consequences if you get it wrong.
    “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
    ― Benjamin Franklin

  11. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTechNC View Post
    Other than oil changes, no I do not work on my own cars. Oil changes IMO are the same as a filter change on an HVAC unit, and I would not expect a customer to call a pro to change a filter for them. That actually speaks to my point perfectly, I am not an auto mechanic, nor do I want to be one. I know what my limitations are in that field, and when the service I need exceeds my skill level I contact a professional, not try to buy parts from craigslist and then fish on forums for advice on how to install it.

    Besides, my brother is an ASC certified master mechanic, so I have really easy and affordable access to the pros in that field. Did a labor swap for him earlier this year actually. I changed out his 14 year old York heat pump with a leaky coil for a nice, new Rheem 3 ton heat pump with a nifty Honeywell zone dampering system in exchange for new brakes, new axle, new radiator and water pump, new springs and shocks, battery and alternator, and a few other misc stuff on my Ford.

    Ultimately my point is that DIY consumerism is great, I do it too. I paint my own house instead of calling painters, but you have to know what your limits are. This is a specialized field, requiring lots of training and specialized tools to do it correctly and most jobs in this field should be done by qualified professionals, not homeowners.
    I totally agree with this.

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