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Originally Posted by
Motel Guy
I had a tech come and service my AC the other day and he put R410 refrigerant in in my R22 system. He said you can mix up to 20% as long as you keep the pressures in line. Is this true ? He said the real problem is the oils and when you add refrigerant you are not adding oil. Is that right ? Sounds fishy to me. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
#1 That guy is an idiot. As everyone else has said, they need to recover that refrigerant, put the system on vacuum, and recharge by weight with only R-22.
#2 I hate having to overcome the reputation people like that tech bring to this industry. Its no wonder people dont know if they can trust an HVAC tech or company... On the bright side of that, being competent and honest usually means when I service a new customer's system I have won a customer for life, but I still dont enjoy the skepticism I am met with by many new customers because of a bad experience from some yokel like that...
#3 All refrigerants have different temperature properties (thats why we have those nifty P/T charts and the corresponding temperature conversion on our gauges. Mixing refrigerants screws up that entire theory, which happens to be the underlying theory in refrigeration.
#4 How the hell would he (or anyone) know when the blend has reached or surpassed 20%? Lets assume for one brief moment that what he said had a sliver of truth to it... Ya, I know, its hard, but work with me... Ok, so we find a unit that is low on charge.. how low? What is the weight or volume of the R-22 that is left in the system on which we are going to establish a base for this magic 20%?
That guy should go to working in the apartment industry, he could have a bright future there...
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He could go into refrigeration, a lot of those are actual blends of various refrigerants in differing ratios.
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Originally Posted by
stonewallred
410 and 22?
That won't work.
He should have used 22 and then topped it off with 409, with maybe a few ounces of HP-80 or 81.
That would increased efficiency, lowered the customers power bill and made the owner hair thicker and more glossy.
Hold on a second...
The secret to great hair.
Thank you for putting me on the floor.
"Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort. The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" --- John Ruskin
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lets put propane in our auto a/c systems too
lol
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Originally Posted by
fenderizer
lets put propane in our auto a/c systems too
lol
Naw, I'd rather ammonia! I want to see my breath in my own car!
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Originally Posted by
fenderizer
lets put propane in our auto a/c systems too
lol
no a bad idea,been around for a while, as a matter of fact it was done to get the mineral oil back to the compressors when retrofitting from r-12 to 134a. propane is a very good refrigerant, in Japan and Europe propane refrigerators are available. here we have too many greedy corporations and too many lawyers.
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Originally Posted by
hvacpope
no a bad idea,been around for a while, as a matter of fact it was done to get the mineral oil back to the compressors when retrofitting from r-12 to 134a. propane is a very good refrigerant, in Japan and Europe propane refrigerators are available. here we have too many greedy corporations and too many lawyers.
Every "guru" I have ever spoken to has claimed propane is the "best" refrigerant available.
Looking at the numbers, I might concur.
But, then I look at the site's DIY rules.
Yeah, that makes a difference.
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We have been listening to nonsense about the environment for decades.
The truth is tangible...
Go to a dump and realize that we are filling our landfills...
Then go to a mine and see how quickly precious resources are consumed.
Global warming is a theory... cannot be proved that man is responsible for it. It is a religion.
If I'm wrong, why arent manufacturers regulated to build things to last for 50 years? I mean since the "Al Gores" of the world are so concerned about the environment and all...
The typical appliance today breaks down and new parts are required on an average of every 4 years... ATROCIOUS! Yet, you never hear about the reasons to build things to last... do you?
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Post Likes - 0 Likes, 1 Dislikes
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Originally Posted by
Motel Guy
I had a tech come and service my AC the other day and he put R410 refrigerant in in my R22 system. He said you can mix up to 20% as long as you keep the pressures in line. Is this true ? He said the real problem is the oils and when you add refrigerant you are not adding oil. Is that right ? Sounds fishy to me. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Let me try to remember, was it Dalton's law, Charles's law, Pascal's law, Boyle"s law, Gay-Lussac's law, Avogadro's law, ideal gas law or Murphy's law?
HVACR 101.
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Originally Posted by
ehsx
Let me try to remember, was it Dalton's law, Charles's law, Pascal's law, Boyle"s law, Gay-Lussac's law, Avogadro's law, ideal gas law or Murphy's law?
HVACR 101.
MotelGuy posted 9 years ago!
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Originally Posted by
pecmsg
MotelGuy posted 9 years ago!
Have the laws changed? or the thread get hijacked?
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Reading that made me cringe! NOOOOO ITS NOT OK! He needs to recover it all, changed the filter drier, evacuate and charge with fresh refrigerant at minimum. However my understanding is 410A is impregnated in the cylinder with POE oil. Could be problematic. I see a long line of issues down the road!
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Originally Posted by
BollingJ3068
However my understanding is 410A is impregnated in the cylinder with POE oil.
I have never heard this. Do you have a source for this claim?
The great professors of the art are not immune from the malignancy of matter and the eternal cussedness of inanimate objects.
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Originally Posted by
CHAINIK
I have never heard this. Do you have a source for this claim?
I do not. I was told this by a coworker who I trust immensely. I do not know if it is true or not but he’s usually not wrong. But he’s the only one I’ve ever heard say that
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Originally Posted by
BollingJ3068
Reading that made me cringe! NOOOOO ITS NOT OK! He needs to recover it all, changed the filter drier, evacuate and charge with fresh refrigerant at minimum. However my understanding is 410A is impregnated in the cylinder with POE oil. Could be problematic. I see a long line of issues down the road!
First, the OP started this thread 9 years ago. So by now he has either had the system taken care of, or replaced.
Next, I don't believe R410A cylinders come with the refrigerant impregnated with oil. That would tend to cause excessive oil in smaller systems.
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Originally Posted by
beenthere
First, the OP started this thread 9 years ago. So by now he has either had the system taken care of, or replaced.
Next, I don't believe R410A cylinders come with the refrigerant impregnated with oil. That would tend to cause excessive oil in smaller systems.
I didn’t notice the original post date. I noticed the last comment on 8-16-20. I literally just started using this site today
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Originally Posted by
BollingJ3068
I didn’t notice the original post date. I noticed the last comment on 8-16-20. I literally just started using this site today
LOL.
Don't sweat it.
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Originally Posted by
BollingJ3068
I do not. I was told this by a coworker who I trust immensely. I do not know if it is true or not but he’s usually not wrong. But he’s the only one I’ve ever heard say that
Read the sds.
Guess that’s how we get all those other 400’s by impregnation.
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Originally Posted by
fenderizer
lets put propane in our auto a/c systems too
lol
That works. Propane is almost identical to R12. Only reason it's not used is it's flammable.
I knew a guy that had to use propane on a milk cooler because of not able to obtain R12 that day.
But to the question. There have always been things done in the field that might not be just right but do they work and do they not hurt anything. What's needed here is not to make judgements w/o evidence. Actual testing. Most would not mix refrigerants but not because they knew something bad might happen, they just didn't want an unknown to creep in.
I'm fairly sure I could get a resi line set clean enough to where R410 would not react. Copper cleans up well. I think this might be a manufacture not wanting any unknowns.
I do know of repeated failures on a 12 ton heat pump that was R500 but the techs never checked. Pumped in R22. But this was a failure due to large differences in compressors and refrigerants. Some techs would replace the R500 with R22 and change the TXV. I never thought this was a good idea.
We are here on Earth to fart around ......Kurt Vonnegut
You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.
USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49
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Originally Posted by
hvacker
That works. Propane is almost identical to R12.
Nope. Propane R290 is almost identical to R22 not 12 (22 and 290 both have an atmospheric boiling point of roughly -40°, 12 is -22° F). If you mix propane with isobutane in the correct ratio you get something close to R12.