Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,734

    Best system for a large office warehouse.

    One of my clients, is getting ready to build a very large
    warehouse. It will be right at 300,000 square feet.

    Their architects have visited with them about chillers, and
    ice storage (thermal ) systems to cool the building.

    There will be about 70,000 sq ft of office, and 200,000 sq ft of
    refigerated warehouse. The refigerated warehouse will be
    30% will be kept at 36 degrees, and the rest at 62 degrees.

    What are some of your thoughts about the best systems to
    go with. Here in Austin, TX we have hot summers at 100 degrees,
    and mild winters in the 36 degrees to rare 20's.

    I will not be doing the work, but they have asked for my
    thoughts, since I have kept their current system running.

    Electricity here is about 10 cents per kilowatt hour, and a
    demand charge.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,533
    Quote Originally Posted by edward301 View Post
    One of my clients, is getting ready to build a very large
    warehouse. It will be right at 300,000 square feet.

    Their architects have visited with them about chillers, and
    ice storage (thermal ) systems to cool the building.

    There will be about 70,000 sq ft of office, and 200,000 sq ft of
    refigerated warehouse. The refigerated warehouse will be
    30% will be kept at 36 degrees, and the rest at 62 degrees.

    What are some of your thoughts about the best systems to
    go with. Here in Austin, TX we have hot summers at 100 degrees,
    and mild winters in the 36 degrees to rare 20's.

    I will not be doing the work, but they have asked for my
    thoughts, since I have kept their current system running.

    Electricity here is about 10 cents per kilowatt hour, and a
    demand charge.
    Include enough supplemental dehumidification to maintain <60%RH at the desired temperatures. High outdoor dew points and low cooling loads require a minimum of 200 lbs. of dehumidification per day per 5,000 sqft. of floor space. Check out the Ultra-Aire Xt205H which when combined with a 5-10 ton a/c will maintain <60%RH during low/no cooling loads and high outdoor dew points.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    13
    62 degrees office temp? ai'nt that too cold?
    http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2004...r-productivity

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    13
    I suggest you contact a engineering office who can calculate, engineer and install the system.
    might cost you first but will safe you later IMHO.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    976
    interesting question.

    Ice storgae...do you have the space to store tanks, than you have chemical treatment, engineering staff, pumps, tower fans, fans units, need space to put all this equipment.
    Chill water plant. ..everything the same minus storage tanks.

    Plate heat exchangers can they we used during winter months?

    Split system/RTUs...a lot less maintenance and equipment. you will have isolated issues if equipment failure happens. depending on the kind of storage you will have, i would plan for redundancy. I would incorporate an emergency plan like a generators or outside support like chiller rentals in my planning.

    some emergency plan considerations if you lose: water, power, equipment, communications, sewer, ..where will you stage temporary equipment and how will you hook it up? waht size generator will you need and how will it be powered gas, oil, electric, propane how long can it run before refueling?

    Fire systems what will be required?

    BMS system, what kind and what will be required. you want web based and have a company that can support you locally.
    Same for equipment, don't buy Trane, Carrier, McQuay or whoever because up front cost are good, if your closest local dealer is 100 miles away you will be sorry. That is a fact!

    yes humidity is a good one to talk about. central steam plant/hot water or other means. space/parts/ labor

    Office; I guess i would look at it a few different ways. What will the office space be used for. Is it rentals or just for the company? Installing RTUs for the office space may reduce space requirements for equipment and less labor and materials. You either have piping to fans units or duct work. again its all about space. and how valuable the space is for your company and the design of the building.

    I would talk to the local chemical companies about local water quality and cost to maintain proper water chemistry for a chiller plants.
    I would consider mechanical support contractors and who reps for who and how many are there in a 50 mile radius.
    I would look at OSHA and safety factors, training and what will the cost be associated with each type of plant.
    I would estimate water use and factor in water supply cost and sewer cost.
    i would consider any local environmental impacts in the event of leaks from the chiller plant if glycol is used...
    How fast do they want this built and in use? time is money! find out lead time on equipment and develop a construction schedule.


    What incentives does the electric companies offer to off set cost.


    I guess it comes down to how much space your willing to give up and the cost to operated it and maintain it over a 20 yr period. The first few years the maintenance cost and replacements cost will be low with warranties. But over time they will increase.

    and most importantly,,,How easy will it be to maintain, who will maintain it and how many people will be required. Will you have outside support or all inhouse or a combination. when designing, this is a good time to make sure they put things in place to make it easy to get to the equipment and get to it safely.

    Stay away form motion sensor lighting..i hate those.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    For the refrigerated warehouse portion, you will need properly built structure. since this is new construction in texas, things to look at first are r values of walls, roof. better to spend money on doing it right now, as oposed to half assed. This will save on operating costs for the life of the structure, as well as reduce inside load.

    Once you know your interior load, your engineers can do building modeling to help determine load, both hvac and electrical. You might be surprised to learn that one of the first orders of business is finding out if there is enough power on the local grid ot carry your proposed load. Knowing this answer helps direct the conversation. For example if you only have four megs to work with, it may be necessary to go central plant, high efficiency chillers, and distributed load. Rooftops may be too much load. You NEED to know this NOW.

    Most larger warehouses such as this use multiple package rooftops for cooling/dehumidification. This is for lower first cost install, and redundancy. I love the idea of distributed chilled water, however it comes at a cost. Regardless, you wil need rooftop units, curbs, power wiring, life safety, etc. In many cases, electrical service is marginal, so a method of effecting load shed is needed. I.E., on really hot days, many will start to turn off interior units to reduce load during peak times.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Flat Rock, NC
    Posts
    463
    Is this for beer/wine distribution center? Electric or propane forklifts?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    22
    Once you know your interior load, your engineers can do building modeling to help determine load, both hvac and electrical. You might be surprised to learn that one of the first orders of business is finding out if there is enough power on the local grid ot carry your proposed load. Knowing this answer helps direct the conversation. For example if you only have four megs to work with, it may be necessary to go central plant, high efficiency chillers, and distributed load. Rooftops may be too much load. You NEED to know this NOW.

    Ditto this is the sock before you tie your shoes

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