Getting into Refrigeration...

[Iceneck]

Hi,

I'm a maintenance guy at a grocery store. I've been doing this job for about 2 years, and have really settled on making refrigeration a career. It's my job to call the refrigeration guys whenever we have a problem, and I follow them around like a puppy asking questions. Several of the journeymen have sort of taken me under thier wing. I've gotten to where i'm pretty good, although I'm certainly no journeyman. I understand a rack system (we have 4 36 HP Hussmann protocols with Emerson/Einstein controllers) and I do simple stuff like replace gaskets on reach ins, clean the condensers on the roof, clean evap coils, replace bent/broken fan blades, clean condensate drains etc. Last week I learned how to replace a filter/dryer core and sightglass (system had water in it). Not that I'd EVER do it myself. But I could if you put a gun to my head.

So now I need to find training. Several of the journeymen that I work with are encouraging me to apply with their company as an apprentice and the union would train me for free (if/when I get a job with a union shop). The other option I have to go to trade school...a decision I hear a lot of people regretting on these forums.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

[stevrock]

Before anybody can help you, they need to know where you live...

[Phase Loss]

DON'T DO IT!! get a desk job

[thefreezerguy]

DON'T DO IT!! get a desk job

You said it Brother!

[Big_Ern]

As a young guy working in this field, my advice is to highly consider going to school first. having the education and being a market maintenance guy on a resume would carry lots of weight when applying for your union or companies that do refrigeration. even if the schooling doesn't teach anything about racks, they will be easier to learn with an education.

[Iceneck]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I take the test for the UA Local in early July.

It will be hard for me to bite the (financial) bullet of going to school...especially since I've already read several textbooks they use. However, I do like school and learn quickly. I have theory down pat, but I don't know things like how to braze, how to do rigging or sheet metal work, etc. I'm just taking my Section 608 exam next week.

I love troubleshooting cases...once I get my epa cert I can start using my guages and take it to a higher level. I just hope there is a way for to convey all I've learned to a prospective employer!

[NedFlanders]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I take the test for the UA Local in early July.

It will be hard for me to bite the (financial) bullet of going to school...especially since I've already read several textbooks they use. However, I do like school and learn quickly. I have theory down pat, but I don't know things like how to braze, how to do rigging or sheet metal work, etc. I'm just taking my Section 608 exam next week.

I love troubleshooting cases...once I get my epa cert I can start using my guages and take it to a higher level. I just hope there is a way for to convey all I've learned to a prospective employer!

Are you in NoCal or SoCal?..I wont talk to northerners

I'm just curious..I'm in the union but started as nonunion. "hands on" is the best way AFTER basic knowledge is mastered or at least understood very well.

Good luck

[Iceneck]

Are you in NoCal or SoCal?..I wont talk to northerners

I'm just curious..I'm in the union but started as nonunion. "hands on" is the best way AFTER basic knowledge is mastered or at least understood very well.

Good luck

Go Giants. That should be nuff'. ; )

If I go the Union route through the apprenticeship program I'll get both though, right? At the same time...

[NedFlanders]

Depends on the company you work for.....Some companies won't let tradesmen/apprentices do anything technical. The union rules kinda frown on certain things, I like to show everyone everything because I can watch and not work and I'm a really good guy on top of that.

If you do markets , I wouldn't worry about lack of hands on, The AC side seems to have a different way of doing things. They take the union thing a little too serious ( in my opinion) and sometimes will only let you do certain things.

I still take training courses through the union and I hear all kinds of stuff they do .

Also it seems at least where I'm at , the HVAC side out numbers the refer side 3-4:1. Market guys (in the union) seems to be slowly dieing off. The NONunion companies are and have been low balling the trade to the point where it's hard for a union contractor to compete.

[upnort]

I would say, get the schooling. I have read on here about some of the bad experiences people have had with schools and the only thing I can figure is that it really depends on the school you go to. I went into an HVACR program with absolutely zero knowledge of HVACR. For me, the school gave me a much bigger picture of how and why things work the way they do. Granted, some things taught were very, very basic but some of the guys in the class needed that too. It really helped me to understand electricity on a whole different level. Once I got 'on the job' I learned many things that I didn't learn in the school but I did have a good foundation to understand why. I don't know anything about union schools/programs so I can't comment on the way they do things.

Good luck whatever you choose to do and I think this field is a great place to work.

[skpkey9]

If you are hell bent on getting into this trade, your best bet is to join a company and learn hands on and pay attention... school is a waste of money and time and afterwards you are in no way shape or form ready to get into a van and start playing.... With a company you get real world experence...

I've had to train guys fresh out of school and the only way I could keep from pulling the hair out of my head was to tell them to forget everything they just learned....

[Iceneck]

join a company and learn hands on and pay attention... school is a waste of money and time and afterwards you are in no way shape or form ready to get into a van and start playing.... With a company you get real world experence.

That's the problem...I may not be a journeyman, but I've been working with grocery store cases, self contained freezers/fridges, icemakers, commercial ACs, and 4 racks for 2 years. I may not be a journeyman, but i've educated myself and solved a lot of problems myself. Wish I had a way to convey to potential employers the "education" I have had doing things myself and working closely with journeymen on the stuff I couldn't solve (which they usually then thoroughly taught me)...even though I don't have a piece of paper from trade school.

[skpkey9]

Its something that you are going work for if you want it bad enough you will find a way in.... and best to start with installer helper and come up in the company and if you outgrow what they are allowing you to learn then jump to the next place with more experience.... and pay attention to everything and everyone and you will learn to weed out good from bad information.
You will be on a long road butit will get better as you get better...

[kelvin]

Go to school and study hard. If you found a good instructor try to learn from him.

[rayr]

. school is a waste of money and time and afterwards you are in no way shape or form ready to get into a van and start playing.... With a company you get real world experence...

I've had to train guys fresh out of school and the only way I could keep from pulling the hair out of my head was to tell them to forget everything they just learned....

That statement is only partially true. You have to know how it works before you can attempt to fix it. Hands on has to be in balance with Theory (I'm not much on theory, but it is a must) There are specialty classes on piping, control wiring (a must) load calculations. Wayyyyyyyyy to many peeps in this area buy a set of guages, a meter and have hardly a clue. IMO I would like to see hands on and technical training at the same time. Experience takes time in almost everything you do. Remember one thing. Knowledge is power. I have been in this trade for 50 years, work full time, and am still learning. The day I stop learning is when they slam the cover shut on the coffin. Read my Sig.

[Moparmyway]

I think there are both good and bad points here, but let me answer from the Union standpoint. I teach for my Local here in New York. We have a 3 year Apprenticeship program ........... school 2 nights/week and OJT 5 days/week.

I think a balance of class/thoery with hands on is the best approach.

First year .................. CFC in hand
Second Year .............. NYC written test in hand
Third Year ................. NYC practical completed and passed

Once you have your Operators license here in NYC, you can interview for just about any refrigeration position you desire. We have Dudes in the same building for over 30 years, and there are several traveling repair outfits that will put you through every circumstance you could ever think of with a company van and a list of job tickets.

Apprenticeship has its advantages over just the schooling and advantages over just the "helper" position. I believe its the fastest way to produce a full fledged HVAC tech !!

[skpkey9]

rayr - Thats why I said start at the bottom as an installers helper... They are not gonna put a meter or a set of gauges in the hands of a beginner... Thats how I came up... Fact of the matter is that you can't beat real world experence .... and in a since you are in school as you lean you progress and move up in the trade and you are only limited by what you are willing to learn... Any I fully agree with your signature, It depends on how hungry they are to learn... Class is not the end all be all it just shows you how to locate the answers, and if you fall in with a good company and you have a good head on your shoulders you will do fine, I stand you can't beat real world experence and I will agree to disagree with a lot of folks on that matter...

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Whether is union / apprentice or full time trade school.

Pay Real attention and take notes and demand that the instructor review if you are even Slightly confused. They work for you - never forget that. You are their boss - not the other way around.

"hands on" don't mean dog poop if you don't know, and I mean KNOW! what is really happening inside the system. Know what is happening like it's a 3-D video running in your head.

What no one will ever teach you hands-on is the nuts & bolts of basic refrigeration theory. I mean so that it soaks into your bones. So that you know it better than you know any other thing on this planet. So that you can always revert to it.

Just like you can always say: A-B-C-D-E-F-G . . . .

PHM
------

Hi,

I'm a maintenance guy at a grocery store. I've been doing this job for about 2 years, and have really settled on making refrigeration a career. It's my job to call the refrigeration guys whenever we have a problem, and I follow them around like a puppy asking questions. Several of the journeymen have sort of taken me under thier wing. I've gotten to where i'm pretty good, although I'm certainly no journeyman. I understand a rack system (we have 4 36 HP Hussmann protocols with Emerson/Einstein controllers) and I do simple stuff like replace gaskets on reach ins, clean the condensers on the roof, clean evap coils, replace bent/broken fan blades, clean condensate drains etc. Last week I learned how to replace a filter/dryer core and sightglass (system had water in it). Not that I'd EVER do it myself. But I could if you put a gun to my head.

So now I need to find training. Several of the journeymen that I work with are encouraging me to apply with their company as an apprentice and the union would train me for free (if/when I get a job with a union shop). The other option I have to go to trade school...a decision I hear a lot of people regretting on these forums.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...