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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    6

    Carrier vs. Trane?

    I've been lurking here for about a month now trying to learn all I can BEFORE I had the contractors out to estimate a new system for the house. Thanks so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

    Info:
    Live in the DFW metroplex in Texas - HOT and humid. House is 1710sf one story. Lots of shade from big oak trees.

    Electric A/C and natural gas heat.

    I've had 6 different contractors come to the house to estimates. The four that did load calculations all came back with the same size unit for the house - 3.5 ton single-stage unit or 4 ton two-stage unit.

    Price of the systems I'm asking about are in the ballpark of each other. I'm looking for information on the quality and reliability of the systems. Any information will be GREATLY appreciated.

    Systems:

    Trane XL 16i/gas - 17 SEER - ARI# 3935414 (model #s from ARI website)
    Outdoor unit - 4TTX6048E1
    Indoor unit - 4TXFH063CZ3
    Furnace - UD2C080B9V4

    Carrier Comfort Series - 16.5 SEER - ARI# 3636829 (model #s from ARI website)
    Outdoor unit - 24ACB748A
    Indoor unit - CNPH*6024A
    Furnace - 58PH*110-20

    Carrier Performance Series - 17 SEER - ARI# 3638152
    Outdoor unit - 24APA748
    Indoor unit - CNPHP61
    Furnace - 5BCVA110

    Performance series will end up being abt $ more than Comfort Series. Comfort Series and Trane system are almost identical in price. (Hope I haven't overstepped my bounds mentioning the differences.)
    Last edited by beenthere; 05-27-2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: price

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    489 or 428 sq.ft. per ton?
    What kind of load calculations did they do?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    First, big trees of any type don't count when it comes to the load calculation. Trees are temporary for calculation purposes. The come down in storms, via chainsaw or for other reasons.

    You've gotten quotes from several well respected companies that have all gone to the trouble of doing a full room-by-room load calculation and you've seen that they are all telling the 'same story' when it comes to size. The rest is now up to you regarding which company you trust the most. Any equipment comparison has a lot more to do with the installing company than with the manufacturer. Just call the manufacturers and ask them. They try very hard to keep the best contractors and get rid of the fly-by-nights that ruin their reputations. Once the system is installed, if there's problems, it's their name badge on the equipment and they get the black eye.

    You'll likely get lots of well meaning opinions here as to one being better than the other but Carrier, Bryant, Trane, York and Rheem/RUUD are all top drawer companies whose products are on par with each other. They've each taken turns at manufacturing issues so there's never a guarantee with any but that's why a proper installation and a good installing company are so important. Trust you 'gut' and go with the company with which you are most comfortable.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    I could easily find 6 contractors who would do a "load calculation" and all give me oversized AC. Just sayin ...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,632
    Quote Originally Posted by ^shane^ View Post
    I've been lurking here for about a month now trying to learn all I can BEFORE I had the contractors out to estimate a new system for the house. Thanks so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

    Info:
    Live in the DFW metroplex in Texas - HOT and humid. House is 1710sf one story. Lots of shade from big oak trees.

    Electric A/C and natural gas heat.

    I've had 6 different contractors come to the house to estimates. The four that did load calculations all came back with the same size unit for the house - 3.5 ton single-stage unit or 4 ton two-stage unit.

    Price of the systems I'm asking about are in the ballpark of each other. I'm looking for information on the quality and reliability of the systems. Any information will be GREATLY appreciated.

    Systems:

    Trane XL 16i/gas - 17 SEER - ARI# 3935414 (model #s from ARI website)
    Outdoor unit - 4TTX6048E1
    Indoor unit - 4TXFH063CZ3
    Furnace - UD2C080B9V4

    Carrier Comfort Series - 16.5 SEER - ARI# 3636829 (model #s from ARI website)
    Outdoor unit - 24ACB748A
    Indoor unit - CNPH*6024A
    Furnace - 58PH*110-20

    Carrier Performance Series - 17 SEER - ARI# 3638152
    Outdoor unit - 24APA748
    Indoor unit - CNPHP61
    Furnace - 5BCVA110

    Performance series will end up being abt $ more than Comfort Series. Comfort Series and Trane system are almost identical in price. (Hope I haven't overstepped my bounds mentioning the differences.)
    Why would the Carrier guy be quoting a 110,000 btu furnace while the Trane is a 80,000 btu.

    So much for the load calc.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,060
    Think BIG!
    BIGGER is better.

    1700 sq ft and 4 ton even for Dallas in a shaded house sure seems like a lot. If you really need that much, probably better off tightening the house or blowing a bunch of insulation in the attic so you can get a smaller unit and save on your electric bills.

    I disagree on trees not counting. All of the trees aren't coming down unless a tornado takes them along with the house. You ignore the nice shade and oversize and you'll be buying one of Teddy Bear's dehums cuz your big A/C doesn't run enough to dehumidify. And forget the 2 stage, I've seen the latent capacity of some of them on low, especially the Trane. Won't help much.

    Same with the furnace. The average 1700 sq ft ranch here would have the 80% 80,000 BTU furnace to heat it when it is -10° outside. So needing that much or more for a mild Dallas is a bit carried away.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    6
    I should have included...

    All four that did the load calculations said I need a 3.5 ton unit. They priced me 4 ton units to get to a 2 stage system (no 3.5 ton 2 stage systems out there). Seems to me that the 2 stage system is a better system (from what I can read and interpret) for dehumidifying the air and for overall efficiency. I understand that a 4 ton unit is too big for the house as a single stage system, but I am under the impression that a 4 ton 2-stage system will run on "low" a vast majority of the time - dehumidifying and cooling - only going to "high" when a bump in cooling is needed.

    Is the 2 stage system overrated?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,632
    Quote Originally Posted by ^shane^ View Post
    I should have included...

    All four that did the load calculations said I need a 3.5 ton unit. They priced me 4 ton units to get to a 2 stage system (no 3.5 ton 2 stage systems out there). Seems to me that the 2 stage system is a better system (from what I can read and interpret) for dehumidifying the air and for overall efficiency. I understand that a 4 ton unit is too big for the house as a single stage system, but I am under the impression that a 4 ton 2-stage system will run on "low" a vast majority of the time - dehumidifying and cooling - only going to "high" when a bump in cooling is needed.

    Is the 2 stage system over rated?
    I agree with B. L. I don't have a problem with 2 speed A/C (or H/Ps) IF your house needs a 4 ton. But oversizing just to "step up" to a 2-speed can spell disaster.

    I know first hand. I was going along just great with my 2.5 ton A/C. When lightning hit it, I put in a 3 ton "2-speed" thinking it would work (de-humidify) better.

    I was soooooooooo wrong. But I learned a very valuable lesson.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    1,701
    3.5 ton trane xl15i with variable speed 80k furnace and you will be comfortable in big d. the carrier single stage comfort series are good systems as well.
    "When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic" - Benjamin Franklin

    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action"- George Washington

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    556
    I'm a homeowner (not a pro) but I recently went through the same type of process in choosing a system.

    1) I chose Carrier Comfort series and am very happy with the equipment.
    2) I decided against Trane as I was repeatedly warned their parts are largely proprietary, or said another way Trane isn't as compatible with after-market parts. This can mean longer order times and higher costs. Maybe the pro's on the fourm have more comments to share, but I heard it pretty much from everyone, including Trane dealers as well.
    3) The installation is by far the most important aspect. If you choose the wrong installer it won't matter what system you buy, the end result will be a hoard of headaches & problems. I learned this the hard way.
    4) Refer to #3 again.

    Sonic

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,880
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post

    I disagree on trees not counting. All of the trees aren't coming down unless a tornado takes them along with the house. You ignore the nice shade and oversize and you'll be buying one of Teddy Bear's dehums cuz your big A/C doesn't run enough to dehumidify. And forget the 2 stage, I've seen the latent capacity of some of them on low, especially the Trane. Won't help much.
    I reduced from a 4 ton to a 3 ton on a large rancher(around 3100 sq ft) some years ago. Solely because of the shade of all the trees that had grown high enough over the last 25 years that it shaded the home's larger windows and skylights.

    Yep, tree shade does count.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,272

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ^shane^ View Post
    I've been lurking here for about a month now trying to learn all I can BEFORE I had the contractors out to estimate a new system for the house. Thanks so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

    Info:
    Live in the DFW metroplex in Texas - HOT and humid. House is 1710sf one story. Lots of shade from big oak trees.

    Electric A/C and natural gas heat.

    I've had 6 different contractors come to the house to estimates. The four that did load calculations all came back with the same size unit for the house - 3.5 ton single-stage unit or 4 ton two-stage unit.

    Price of the systems I'm asking about are in the ballpark of each other. I'm looking for information on the quality and reliability of the systems. Any information will be GREATLY appreciated.
    Is that a "Glass House" ?

    Is it more than 50 years old?

    Speculate that a load calc might show < 36,000 BTU/ HR at ~ 93'F.
    Did they all run their calcs at *** 105'F *** ?

    Do you have parties for 20 people or more in the summer?


    ----- The real issue is .. WHY a 3.5 Ton? -----

    Why not a heat pump?
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,619
    the trane 16i does not dehumidify very well in low stage because the 2 stage compressor reduces to 70 percent capacity but the air flow reduces to 80 percent and on a 5 ton coil to get the seer rating therefore you need to be careful about oversizing .

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