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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Israel is the birthplace of Christianity and the original homeland of the Jews. It is their land and they were pushed off their homeland Millennia ago and they have now returned.
    The UN is a worthless organization that amounts to nothing but a drain on the American economy and should be disbanded.
    The only right the jewish people have to Israel and Palestine and the other surrounding lands is that we...the USA...financed and continue to finance their state of the art military machine....and we are also there to back them up when the sh*t hits the fan.

    Doesnt matter if Israel was the birthplace of judaism or christianity.....land is only yours as long as you can hold onto it.

    People been taking land since time began......

    And there isnt much christian about Israel.....It is after all the jewish state.

    Nothing against the jewish folk either.....just stating facts.....

    No right.....If someone bigger and badder can come and take it.....its theirs.
    "I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada, I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

    Cliven Bundy.... Patriot ???

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Just the opposite is true; [/COLOR]Unlike Hitler's Germany, Israeli Jews only want the tiny piece of the Middle East that is now Israel. It is the Middle Eastern Muslims who want to erradicate Jews from that little area of the Middle East.

    Today's Palestinians are a displaced Muslim people who were forced to leave their own country of Jordan because they even caused trouble for the Muslims. At least that is the stand that the Muslim's in the Middel East are taking.

    With all of the lands in the Middle East available to Muslims, these self proclaimed Palestinian Arabs only want the land that Israel occupy's.

    No, it is not the Jews who were allies with Germany. The Islamic nations learned a few tricks from the Germans though.
    I agree completely with royc. The fight is over land and water. The two most valuable things in the region.

    Hate to ask Robo, but from this section,
    Today's Palestinians are a displaced Muslim people who were forced to leave their own country of Jordan because they even caused trouble for the Muslims. At least that is the stand that the Muslim's in the Middel East are taking.
    it sounds like you are saying the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip came from Jordan. Are you saying these people did not come from the area we now call Israel? I seem to have gotten the impression they escaped the war taking place in 1948 in the creation of the state of Israel. After the guns were silenced they were not allowed to return to their homes and they did not receive any compensation for lost property.

    I would guess the right to return to their old homes in Israel would not be an issue if they came from Jordan.

    Could you enlighten me on this point.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    This is about the most concise, down to earth description I can think of as to how the Six Days War came about; [/COLOR]
    The boundaries came about as result of the 1967 Six Day War between Israel and its Arab neighbors, who had a combined population many, many multiples to that of the Jewish state. The Arab world, led by Egyptian President Gamal Abdul Nasser, got into a tizzy and was prepping to destroy Israel. For simplification sake, just imagine 30 guys surrounding and preparing to beat up and kill some seemingly tiny fella. Only, the tiny fella turned out to be Bruce Lee and instead of getting pummeled, he kicks the sh*t out of all of them — in six seconds. That’s the Six Day War in a nutshell.

    Kind of cool the tiny little fella just happened to have an uzi supplied by the US. (Yes I know the Israelis designed and built the uzi, it was all the high price firepower supplied by the US that saved their bacon.) The countries that attacked them misjudged the effectiveness of air power.

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I would hope not. That is what I got from your post.

    Are you saying that your happiness was only for the Jews getting their own homeland....period?



    Yes


    And you also knew that the German Jews who were not exterminated would never forget about the Jews who were exterminated? I think that goes without saying.

    Are you equating Jews in Israel not wanting to allow Muslims that have ousted from Jordan, who vow to wipe out Jews, to be allowed to form a country next to Israel the same as Germany exterminating millions of it's own people?
    I was only 12-14 years old at the time, I wasnt that complicated at that age to think of that diatribe you put in to my mouth.

    You keep insinuating that I'm a Jewhater or a Nazi, and I keep telling you its absolutly not so, but you still keep it up, which considering who I am and where I was born is insulting as hell. I have never said anything insulting to you or any member in here, and I insist to be treated in the same manner.

    You must stop these insinuations, NOW.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    The only right the jewish people have to Israel and Palestine and the other surrounding lands is that we...the USA...financed and continue to finance their state of the art military machine....and we are also there to back them up when the sh*t hits the fan.

    Doesnt matter if Israel was the birthplace of judaism or christianity.....land is only yours as long as you can hold onto it.

    People been taking land since time began......

    And there isnt much christian about Israel.....It is after all the jewish state.

    Nothing against the jewish folk either.....just stating facts.....

    No right.....If someone bigger and badder can come and take it.....its theirs.
    You are correct.

    So, why does the U.S. and Britain (a major factor) support a Jewish state in the Middle East?

    Historically, the Middle East was a tribal land consisting of nomads. Some of the nomad tribes became Hebrews, some Arabs, all from the same basic stock though.

    Through the Hebrew line was the birth of the monotheistic understanding that the spiritual creator of the universe is actually a single, unseable entity rather then a bunch of envisioned lesser entities under a ruling entity.

    Through the Arab line there were tribal Pagan beliefs utilizing sacred stones and the such.

    For a few thousand years they fight back and forth until outsiders come on the scene and take over the whole shebang; enter the Greeks and then the Romans.

    Still, Jews and Arabs living together, fighting once in a while, but all have claim to the Middle East as their ancestrial home.

    Theological developements center around the city of Jerusalem. The sacrid monuments of the Jews is in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a holy city for Jews beginning around 1,000 years BC. Speaking of BC, we now to the point that determins BC, which is AD. Christianity is born out of Judaism as an extension of Judaism for most Jews in the Middle East. Jews and Pagans accepting Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah of Judaism become brothers in Christ and Christianity is born.

    So, Jews and Christians and Arabs all living together under Roman rule, but all have claim to the Middle East as their homeland.

    Along comes Mohammed, who unites the Arabs into a new politico/theology called Islam. Those who adhere to Islam are called Muslims. Muslims start taking over the Middle East, but in the end, Jews, Christians and Muslims all live together in the Middle East.

    Islam spreads, ticks off Europeans and is eventually defeated by the British during WWI. Over the years, Jews have been either forced out of the Middle East or driven to live on the small area of land now called Israel. The Brits make up a country they call Palestine where Palestinian Arabs can live on the east side of the Jordan river and Palestinian Jews can live on the West side of the Jordan river.

    Jews from the Middle East call on their relatives scattered throughout the world and tell them to come back home to the Middle East. The more Jews move into the Jewish portion of Palestine, the more the Muslim Palestinians get ticked off. After all, they spent decades getting rid of all of those Jews and now they are all coming back home.

    Palestinian Muslims refuse to stop attacking Jews. Britain seperates the Palestinian Jews and the Palestinian Muslims, giving the Palestinian Jews a homeland of Israel and expanding Jordan's bounderies for the Palestinian Muslims to live in with Jordanian Muslims, of which they are all the same before the Brits made up the briefly existing Palestine.

    Palestinian Muslims still refuse to allow Jews to live in peace. Jews expand Israeli bounderies to more defendable geographic lines and here we are.

    No matter who helped who, Jews in Israel now occupy and have control of the land called Israel and are the victors.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You are correct.

    So, why does the U.S. and Britain (a major factor) support a Jewish state in the Middle East?

    Historically, the Middle East was a tribal land consisting of nomads. Some of the nomad tribes became Hebrews, some Arabs, all from the same basic stock though.

    Through the Hebrew line was the birth of the monotheistic understanding that the spiritual creator of the universe is actually a single, unseable entity rather then a bunch of envisioned lesser entities under a ruling entity.

    Through the Arab line there were tribal Pagan beliefs utilizing sacred stones and the such.

    For a few thousand years they fight back and forth until outsiders come on the scene and take over the whole shebang; enter the Greeks and then the Romans.

    Still, Jews and Arabs living together, fighting once in a while, but all have claim to the Middle East as their ancestrial home.

    Theological developements center around the city of Jerusalem. The sacrid monuments of the Jews is in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a holy city for Jews beginning around 1,000 years BC. Speaking of BC, we now to the point that determins BC, which is AD. Christianity is born out of Judaism as an extension of Judaism for most Jews in the Middle East. Jews and Pagans accepting Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah of Judaism become brothers in Christ and Christianity is born.

    So, Jews and Christians and Arabs all living together under Roman rule, but all have claim to the Middle East as their homeland.

    Along comes Mohammed, who unites the Arabs into a new politico/theology called Islam. Those who adhere to Islam are called Muslims. Muslims start taking over the Middle East, but in the end, Jews, Christians and Muslims all live together in the Middle East.

    Islam spreads, ticks off Europeans and is eventually defeated by the British during WWI. Over the years, Jews have been either forced out of the Middle East or driven to live on the small area of land now called Israel. The Brits make up a country they call Palestine where Palestinian Arabs can live on the east side of the Jordan river and Palestinian Jews can live on the West side of the Jordan river.

    Jews from the Middle East call on their relatives scattered throughout the world and tell them to come back home to the Middle East. The more Jews move into the Jewish portion of Palestine, the more the Muslim Palestinians get ticked off. After all, they spent decades getting rid of all of those Jews and now they are all coming back home.

    Palestinian Muslims refuse to stop attacking Jews. Britain seperates the Palestinian Jews and the Palestinian Muslims, giving the Palestinian Jews a homeland of Israel and expanding Jordan's bounderies for the Palestinian Muslims to live in with Jordanian Muslims, of which they are all the same before the Brits made up the briefly existing Palestine.

    Palestinian Muslims still refuse to allow Jews to live in peace. Jews expand Israeli bounderies to more defendable geographic lines and here we are.

    No matter who helped who, Jews in Israel now occupy and have control of the land called Israel and are the victors.
    Very well stated nails the situation square on.

  7. #59
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    I can forgive your history lesson painting the Jews as innocents and Muslims as whiny troublemakers there is one little bit that I find out of place.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    The Brits make up a country they call Palestine where Palestinian Arabs can live on the east side of the Jordan river and Palestinian Jews can live on the West side of the Jordan river.
    So you are saying that the Jews were to get the land west of the Jordan River while the Arabs get the east? Where do you get that from?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN...stine_1947.svg

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I can forgive your history lesson painting the Jews as innocents and Muslims as whiny troublemakers there is one little bit that I find out of place.



    So you are saying that the Jews were to get the land west of the Jordan River while the Arabs get the east? Where do you get that from?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN...stine_1947.svg
    Nice try sneaky Pete

    Here is a map of Palestine from it's inception until the formation of Israel in 1948. That planned map you linked to obviously never became a reality;
    .
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #61
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    Hey robo are you a registered lobbiest for Israel or what? Can't resist, just kidding. Thank you, thank you very much
    Last edited by glennac; 05-24-2011 at 10:53 PM.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them."
    Barry Goldwater

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Nice try sneaky Pete

    Here is a map of Palestine from it's inception until the formation of Israel in 1948. That planned map you linked to obviously never became a reality;
    .
    So show the one that did and who got what land. And shoe your source, you seem to be lacking in links lately. I gave mine.

    So maybe the Arabs had reason to be pissed, with the Jews taking more land than the UN said they can. Same reason they are pissed now with the Israel President saying they will not go back to 1967 borders as they are not defendable. The reason the Israelis built all the settlements they did and far apart (in defiance of UN resolutions) was that they could then say they need the land between them in order to defend the settlements. Basically they have been chipping away at land that was to be the Palestinians with the knowledge that given enough time it would be hard to remove them from it.

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    So show the one that did and who got what land. And shoe your source, you seem to be lacking in links lately. I gave mine.

    So maybe the Arabs had reason to be pissed, with the Jews taking more land than the UN said they can. Same reason they are pissed now with the Israel President saying they will not go back to 1967 borders as they are not defendable. The reason the Israelis built all the settlements they did and far apart (in defiance of UN resolutions) was that they could then say they need the land between them in order to defend the settlements. Basically they have been chipping away at land that was to be the Palestinians with the knowledge that given enough time it would be hard to remove them from it.
    Oh for crying out loud, you're as bad as that liberal troll energy whatsisname

    Here, from the leftist Huffpost, this map shows the areas designated as Israeli and Muslim areas after Palestine was divided up. Most of Palestine became Jordan, including the Golan Heights and West Bank areas. The Gaza strip stayed in Muslim control with Eqypt.
    .
    .

    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_864379.html
    .


    European and Asian Jews moved back into the area designated as Israel where mostly Palestinian Jews lived. Palestinian Muslims migrated to Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza and were so harrassing of Jews that even Jordan disowned them and told them to leave Jordan. Those Palestinian Muslims became the PLO under Arafat's leadership.

    In 1967, when Egyptian and Jordanian troops moved to the borders of Israel and cut of Israel access via internal waterways, a direct act of war according to U.N. resolutions, Israel attacked in all four areas and in six days kicked Muslim butt so bad that they were running with their prayer rugs tucked between their legs.

    At that time, Israel confiscated the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula. After the 1969 Peace Accords, when Egypt accepted Israel as a sovereign nation, Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

    It's not even like only Jews live in Israel. Palestinian Muslims who did not join in the attacks on Israel still live in Israel. Prime Minister Netenyahu just made a comment to the U.S. congress that of the over 300 million Muslims in the Middle East, the only ones who are free are the ones who are Israeli citizens. Great speech by the way. Made Obama look like a mule with torretts.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Oh for crying out loud, you're as bad as that liberal troll energy whatsisname

    Here, from the leftist Huffpost, this map shows the areas designated as Israeli and Muslim areas after Palestine was divided up. Most of Palestine became Jordan, including the Golan Heights and West Bank areas. The Gaza strip stayed in Muslim control with Eqypt.
    .
    .

    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_864379.html
    .
    Strange that they would divide the country up with Arab areas west of the Jordan River when your previous map showed all the area west of the Jordan River to Israel


    European and Asian Jews moved back into the area designated as Israel where mostly Palestinian Jews lived. Palestinian Muslims migrated to Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza and were so harrassing of Jews that even Jordan disowned them and told them to leave Jordan. Those Palestinian Muslims became the PLO under Arafat's leadership.
    You make it sound so clean and civilized. Arabs migrating out of Israel. Nothing of the Arabs that were made refugees by the fighting and were not allowed to return to Israel. The ones that have been stuck in refugee camps since. Even Netanyahu has a different view of events than you.

    In response, Israeli officials reportedly counselled Netanyahu to use his visit to educate the president and other administration officials about the "realities" of the Israeli-Palestinian situation, including the Palestinian demand to repatriate to Israel millions of Palestinians who fled their homes in the war over Israel's creation in 1948.

    The prime minister did so, making clear that Israel had no intention of taking back the Palestinians.

    "It's not going to happen," he said. "Everybody knows it's not going to happen."

    The refugees may need a place to live, Netanyahu said, but it's "not going to be resolved within the Jewish state."
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/wor...&sortBy=oldest

    In 1967, when Egyptian and Jordanian troops moved to the borders of Israel and cut of Israel access via internal waterways, a direct act of war according to U.N. resolutions, Israel attacked in all four areas and in six days kicked Muslim butt so bad that they were running with their prayer rugs tucked between their legs.

    At that time, Israel confiscated the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula. After the 1969 Peace Accords, when Egypt accepted Israel as a sovereign nation, Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

    It's not even like only Jews live in Israel. Palestinian Muslims who did not join in the attacks on Israel still live in Israel. Prime Minister Netenyahu just made a comment to the U.S. congress that of the over 300 million Muslims in the Middle East, the only ones who are free are the ones who are Israeli citizens. Great speech by the way. Made Obama look like a mule with torretts.
    As a descendant of two families that ended up in refugee camps to escape the fighting in a war zone I find it hard to believe all those stuck in the camps since then fought against Israel. Maybe the Palestinians lost because their army was made up of women and children.

  13. #65
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    C'mon printer, you really cannot be this dense. The fact is that Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs all lived in the same general areas of Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs refused to stop attacking Palestinian Jews even when Jordan got sick of the Palestinian Arabs lies and deceits and trouble making. Everyone from the short lived Palestine had a place to live, but a bunch of hateful Palestinian Arabs refused to accept Jews living in the Middle East no matter what.

    The Palestinian Arabs who sided with the PLO have been fighting against Britain, the U.S., the U.N. other Muslims and Jews since the formation of Palestine. These same Palestinian Muslims are now ruled by Hamas which has decreed to not accept Israel as a state and to exterminate all Jews from the Middle East.

    How can you defend people who have refused to live with even their own?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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