Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 75
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,013
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Somebody help me out here. Muslim factions from four different Islamic nations expell the UN security forces and take up military positions surrounding Israel, then close down the Straits of Tiran which is, in writing, to be considered an act or justification for war. And....Israel was the aggressor of the Six Day War?[/COLOR]

    I can see how the Russians could be considered the aggressors. I can see how the Islamic nations were considered the aggressors. I just cannot fathom what kind of mind can conjur up an excuse to blame Israel for being the aggressor. Please, someone help me understand how Israel was the aggressor.

    Maybe the justification is like the Southern sheriff who claims that the Black man found in the river wrapped in chains was trying to steal more then he could carry or the Black man found with a shotgun blast to the back of his head was the worst case of suicide he had ever seen. I dunno.
    Next you'll be telling me that yesterday really wasn't the end of the world.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    You might be right with that due to the credibility or I should say the lack of when it comes to former US Ambassador Charles Freeman.

    And then again if he was turned down for a post on the big O constant revolving door of in through the front and out the back door there might be some truth to it.

    With those factions over there you just can't keep track.
    I've found other references to Israel's alleged aid in developing Hamas, but the data is all over the place. All of the alleged doings of Israel are during the 1970s when Hamas did not yet exist, yet these articles all claim that Hamas did exist before the official beginning of Hamas in 1987.

    It looks like the authors of these articles are shuffling around dates in order to make them fit a scenario to claim that Israel helped create Hamas. Hmmm, just like Mohamed did some date shuffling to make Ismael and Abraham come together in Mecca to build an alter with a black stone that in fact had already been there for hundreds of years. Like Obama shifting time to make it sound like the U.S. hasn't always supported Resolution 242.

    The fact is, these claims just ain't coming clean in the wash.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    Next you'll be telling me that yesterday really wasn't the end of the world.
    Hey, just because you missed the lightning bolt ride to heaven doesn't mean the world didn't end
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #30
    Send a memo to Alllah

    Issac got the birthright, signed
    Abraham

    cc God
    FEN

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    You are really picking daisy's out in left field with this one printer

    Since when were Black Americans here 2000 years ago and why would Black Americans want to take my land when they can have their own land and house because we are all Americans with the same rights?

    Do you really want to stick with your very wrong stand that Palestinians are not directly connected with other Muslim terrorist organizations, including Bin Ladens? http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...-blast_1498258

    http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/S...PID=0&IID=1574

    I mean, if you tell us that you are a spokesperson for the Palestinians, I suppose we will need to reassess the information given that the Palestinians and al qaeda are working closely with one another against Israel, but these guys just sound so darned convincing; http://www.rense.com/general18/PP.HTM[/SIZE]Hmmm, as early as 2001 Al Qaeda is being reported as being so close with Palestinians that a Palestinian was set to take over the organization in case of Bin Laden's death or capture. For all we know, al qeada may now be run by the Palestinians.
    The Jews and the Palestinians lived in what is now Israel. The Jews pushed them out. Just using your mixed society as an example that you might be able to relate to better.

    Used the native indian as another example countering one people taking over the land of another. Should the land revert back to them since they did own it for thousands of years (and more recently than the Jews claim going back 2000 years). My whole point was that you can not expect to just displace people and then expect them to forget about it.


    The political factions of Fatah–Hamas, the government bodies of the Palestinians are not on the same page as Bin Ladens in terms of what they are fighting for. What some splinter group looking for fame and glory does or say can not be used to paint the whole. But you only see them all as the same anyway so that distinction might be hard to see.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    The Palestinians have never held sovereign authority to the land taken in the Six Day War, the West Bank and East Jerusalem were held by Jordan and the Gaza Strip by Egypt.
    There are no Palestinian people in fact prior to 1948 Israeli contingents of the British military where called the Palestinian Brigade. The Palestine is a mutant form of Philistines and the actual term for a Palestinian people was first used in 1843 referring to rebels fighting Muhammad Ali and Ibrahim Pasha rulers of the Ottoman Empire.
    True. But Israel expelling them has made them a people. A displaced people being held under siege. The Jewish inhabitants of Israel did not have sovereign authority over what is now Israel either. The UN and its predecessor gave them the right as they also put in motion the right for the dispossessed to have their own state. One group got their state and the other did not.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    OK, so let's take an exagerrated but possible scenario here; a Jewish woman has a child in Israel in 1948. That child has a child at age 12 in 1960, second generation. The 1960 child has a child in 1972, also at age 12, third generation. The 1972 child has a child in 1984, that child has a child in 1996, and that child has a child in 2008.

    So, we have a possible scenario of there being sixth generation Jews in Israel. Is that good enough for you?

    How do you feel about South Africa? Do Black Africans have the right to take away land from White South Africans whose families have been there for centuries?
    So you agree that the Black South African should not be able to take the White South African's land? So how come you can not see it wrong for those disposed from what is now Israel to just be discarded even though they have lived there for centuries?

    The whites and blacks in South Africa are now living together in one state. How about if the Israelis let the Palestinians return and rather than have two states just have one country for all? Also compensate the people that had their property taken from them. If South Africa can do it surely it can work in the ME.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    And just look at Egypt now

    Islamic nations do not really care about national borders. All they care about is spreading Islam and forcing all peoples to become Muslim. Israel is a real issue to Muslims because it let's the world know that Islam has not defeated all of the factions of faith that has emerged from Jerusalem. Israel is also the only influence all of the non-Islamic countries of the world has in the Middle East. We need Israel as much as Israel needs us. And that includes Canada. Why do you think Britain and the U.S. are so adament about keeping Israel a Jewish nation?
    That is your view.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    The Jews and the Palestinians lived in what is now Israel. The Jews pushed them out. Just using your mixed society as an example that you might be able to relate to better.

    Used the native indian as another example countering one people taking over the land of another. Should the land revert back to them since they did own it for thousands of years (and more recently than the Jews claim going back 2000 years). My whole point was that you can not expect to just displace people and then expect them to forget about it.


    The political factions of Fatah–Hamas, the government bodies of the Palestinians are not on the same page as Bin Ladens in terms of what they are fighting for. What some splinter group looking for fame and glory does or say can not be used to paint the whole. But you only see them all as the same anyway so that distinction might be hard to see.
    But this is no where near what actually occurred. The entire region was ruled by the Ottoman Empire prior to their defeat by the British. The British established Palestine, mostly land that is now Jordan, for Jews and Arabs to share.

    When Jews migrated back to the area that was Judea (where the name Jew comes from), the Arabs in Palestine started harrassing and attacking them.
    In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
    It's not like there is some ancient race of people called Palestinians. Palestinians were created by British designation of the land area they called Palestine, which was inhabited by Jews and Arabs, both to be considered Palestinian.
    .
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    That is your view.
    This is true. Can you show any evidence that my view is not accurate?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,013
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    True. But Israel expelling them has made them a people. A displaced people being held under siege. The Jewish inhabitants of Israel did not have sovereign authority over what is now Israel either. The UN and its predecessor gave them the right as they also put in motion the right for the dispossessed to have their own state. One group got their state and the other did not.
    The Palestinians did get their own State? But they wanted it all and waged war to try and get it.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    But this is no where near what actually occurred. The entire region was ruled by the Ottoman Empire prior to their defeat by the British. The British established Palestine, mostly land that is now Jordan, for Jews and Arabs to share.

    When Jews migrated back to the area that was Judea (where the name Jew comes from), the Arabs in Palestine started harrassing and attacking them. It's not like there is some ancient race of people called Palestinians. Palestinians were created by British designation of the land area they called Palestine, which was inhabited by Jews and Arabs, both to be considered Palestinian.
    .
    Simplified version and one that I am not disputing. The Arabs and Jews were suppose to share the land. But as you said Jews from the rest of the world started showing up and displacing the Arabs that were there. Some Jews wanted a country that was was strictly Jewish resurrecting the nation of old. If they stuck to just being people with a Jewish religion things might have turned out different. You had Jews pushing there way in, Arabs pushing back, same idea as what happened in Yugoslavia. The name we call them now, the Palestinians, is just a handy name for the people that were inhabitants of the area and were displaced. I am not making more of it.

    So you had a civil war go on and the Jews won out. If Jews from all over the world did not migrate back there probably would be no Israel today. How it came to be does make some interesting reading but that is history. The question is where do we go from here?

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    This is true. Can you show any evidence that my view is not accurate?
    Yes I can. But then again who can say my evidence was accurate? You can have two versions of a story with a different outcome depending on your view of things. If life were so boring I would take you up on it, sometimes when you put your mind to it you do good research and put forth credible arguments. But for now I have to finish some projects around the house.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event