Obama vs UN Resolution 242!? - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    So, in your mind, it's only a matter of time? How long before you will defend Jews in Israel for protecting "their" land? 100 years? Five generations? After the last original Jewish occupier has died? When?
    Minimum five generations possibly ten.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    The problem is not just in acreage. The problem is defendable borders from a geographic standpoint.

    If the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank and Golan Heights could be designated as baren land not to be occupied but as a buffer between Israel and the Muslim nations surrounding Israel, then it could be negotiated that Israeli's leave that land. But what good would that do anyone?

    Israel has very good reasons with previous issues for not letting go of those areas that were taken by Israel during the Six Day War. Muslim Palestinians have proven over and over again that they cannot be trusted to be in those regions without their attacking Israel.
    Israel does have valid concerns also. But does that give them the right to occupy a people? The problem needs a political solution not a military one. The Palestinians had it in their grasp years ago but for some reason no one really understands. Carter got Egypt and Israel to come to terms, probably one of his finer moments. I think Arafat screwed the Palestinians, they would love to get that deal back.

  3. #16
    Ever wonder how long this cat and mouse game will continue ?

    The biggest threat is still the Muslims.

    Isreal started Hamas in 87.

    Just more State Department fund raising.

    And now the big O has proceeded to piss off AIPAC,amazing just amazing.

    And where is Carl Levin's statement.
    FEN

  4. #17
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    The Palestinians have never held sovereign authority to the land taken in the Six Day War, the West Bank and East Jerusalem were held by Jordan and the Gaza Strip by Egypt.
    There are no Palestinian people in fact prior to 1948 Israeli contingents of the British military where called the Palestinian Brigade. The Palestine is a mutant form of Philistines and the actual term for a Palestinian people was first used in 1843 referring to rebels fighting Muhammad Ali and Ibrahim Pasha rulers of the Ottoman Empire.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    So you are living in an area, the blacks push you out, take your house, take your land, and fence you in. Will you fight them? Or will you just get on with your life saying 'Well they were here 2000 years ago, I should never have set foot on the land.'?

    The problem is specifically a Palestinian verses Jews problem, when Osama and company started using the Palestinian cause as a way to legitimize their violence the Palestinian leaders said piss off, this is not a religious issue but one of citizenship and compensation of property.
    You are really picking daisy's out in left field with this one printer

    Since when were Black Americans here 2000 years ago and why would Black Americans want to take my land when they can have their own land and house because we are all Americans with the same rights?

    Do you really want to stick with your very wrong stand that Palestinians are not directly connected with other Muslim terrorist organizations, including Bin Ladens?
    Egypt's interior minister said on Sunday the government had proof that the Army of Islam, a Palestinian group linked to al-Qaeda, was behind the new year's day bombing of a church that killed 23 people.
    http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report...-blast_1498258

    On May 9, 2007 the "Army of Islam" organization (Jaish al-Islam) published, on a website identified with al-Qaeda (www.alhesbah.org), an official announcement in which it took responsibility for the kidnapping of the BBC journalist Alan Johnston and called for the release of the Palestinian sheikh, Abu Qatada, who is considered one of the main ideologues of al-Qaeda in Europe and is known to be the one with whom the heads of the group that carried out 9/11 consulted. Hamas spokesperson, Ayman Taha, acknowledged the fact that Hamas and "Army of Islam" had cooperated on the military operational level.
    http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/S...PID=0&IID=1574

    I mean, if you tell us that you are a spokesperson for the Palestinians, I suppose we will need to reassess the information given that the Palestinians and al qaeda are working closely with one another against Israel, but these guys just sound so darned convincing;
    Moscow (IANS) - Al Qaida has named a Palestinian to be Osama bin Laden's successor in case the latter is arrested or killed, Russian news agency Ria-Novosti reported.
    http://www.rense.com/general18/PP.HTMHmmm, as early as 2001 Al Qaeda is being reported as being so close with Palestinians that a Palestinian was set to take over the organization in case of Bin Laden's death or capture. For all we know, al qeada may now be run by the Palestinians.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Minimum five generations possibly ten.
    OK, so let's take an exagerrated but possible scenario here; a Jewish woman has a child in Israel in 1948. That child has a child at age 12 in 1960, second generation. The 1960 child has a child in 1972, also at age 12, third generation. The 1972 child has a child in 1984, that child has a child in 1996, and that child has a child in 2008.

    So, we have a possible scenario of there being sixth generation Jews in Israel. Is that good enough for you?

    How do you feel about South Africa? Do Black Africans have the right to take away land from White South Africans whose families have been there for centuries?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Israel does have valid concerns also. But does that give them the right to occupy a people? The problem needs a political solution not a military one. The Palestinians had it in their grasp years ago but for some reason no one really understands. Carter got Egypt and Israel to come to terms, probably one of his finer moments. I think Arafat screwed the Palestinians, they would love to get that deal back.
    And just look at Egypt now

    Islamic nations do not really care about national borders. All they care about is spreading Islam and forcing all peoples to become Muslim. Israel is a real issue to Muslims because it let's the world know that Islam has not defeated all of the factions of faith that has emerged from Jerusalem. Israel is also the only influence all of the non-Islamic countries of the world has in the Middle East. We need Israel as much as Israel needs us. And that includes Canada. Why do you think Britain and the U.S. are so adament about keeping Israel a Jewish nation?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Obama is many things; paramount of those is a fool.

    The Israelis were not the aggressors in the Six day or Yom Kippur war and any land acquired is theirs and should remain as such.

    Palestine is not a sovereign country never has been; the Palestinians are an unwanted people on all sides including the Muslim nations surrounding them.
    Obama is a Muslim first and will always lean towards the Muslim side.
    With all due respect classical, it can be argued that Israel was the aggressor in the six day war check the link below and furthermore prior to the six day war about a third of the Palestinians were Christians mainly Orthodox. Most of them are dead or have fled the ME altogether. We have lots of them in the US.

    That being said nowadays there are very few Christian Palestinians left and therefor I can't support our enemy the anti West Muslims and Obama's plan to return to the pre 67 borders even though Israel it appears to me started the whole thing. Thank you, thank you very much

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

    "In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border[18]. Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[19][20] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[23] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War."

    http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0692/9206011.html

    "Did the Israelis plan military action all along, setting up a screen of false military communications to deceive and alarm the Soviets? Or was it Russian disinformation to the Arabs that made war inevitable? No clear answer emerges from reading memoirs of the Americans involved. In fact, there were forces working at cross purposes within the Arab camp, and also within the Soviet and American governments. Only within Israel did there seem to be careful planning to maximize opportunities presented by every possible contingency."
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    Ever wonder how long this cat and mouse game will continue ?

    The biggest threat is still the Muslims.

    Isreal started Hamas in 87.

    Just more State Department fund raising.

    And now the big O has proceeded to piss off AIPAC,amazing just amazing.

    And where is Carl Levin's statement.
    Hamas is a Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Pretty much another branch of the never ending branches of Islamic terrorists.

    Hamas is the Palestinian government that Israel has to put up with.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Hamas is a Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Pretty much another branch of the never ending branches of Islamic terrorists.

    Hamas is the Palestinian government that Israel has to put up with.
    http://amconmag.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/

    Well I'll give ya 50% right on that one.

    It was Shin Bet, the counter-intel and internal security service that helped create Hamas.
    Divide and conquer technique,from inside out.
    FEN

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://amconmag.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/

    Well I'll give ya 50% right on that one.

    It was Shin Bet, the counter-intel and internal security service that helped create Hamas.
    Divide and conquer technique,from inside out.
    Complete speculative opinion of one Brit trying to hype a book he wrote. There is nothing to support these speculations. They have absolutely no merit other then in the mind of the author.

    Here is the line that kills this writer's beliefs;
    Israel allowed these Islamic charities to gain strength and influence in Palestinian areas, hoping that they would counter the influence of secular Palestinian resistance movements.
    Since when has Israel ever had any say over Islamic charities? C'mon, this guy Brendan O'neill is just looking to make a few pounds by using speculative hype.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #25
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    "In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border[18]. Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[19][20] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[23] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War."
    Somebody help me out here. Muslim factions from four different Islamic nations expell the UN security forces and take up military positions surrounding Israel, then close down the Straits of Tiran which is, in writing, to be considered an act or justification for war. And....Israel was the aggressor of the Six Day War?

    I can see how the Russians could be considered the aggressors. I can see how the Islamic nations were considered the aggressors. I just cannot fathom what kind of mind can conjur up an excuse to blame Israel for being the aggressor. Please, someone help me understand how Israel was the aggressor.

    Maybe the justification is like the Southern sheriff who claims that the Black man found in the river wrapped in chains was trying to steal more then he could carry or the Black man found with a shotgun blast to the back of his head was the worst case of suicide he had ever seen. I dunno.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #26
    You might be right with that due to the credibility or I should say the lack of when it comes to former US Ambassador Charles Freeman.

    And then again if he was turned down for a post on the big O constant revolving door of in through the front and out the back door there might be some truth to it.

    With those factions over there you just can't keep track.
    FEN

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