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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Boston Ma
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    20

    Controls Submital Standards

    Folks, we are trying to develop standards in developing professional control design submittals....can you give me some ideas on how you do the following
    1) symbols ...Temp -pressure or humidity sensors..how do you define these in the symbols page....besides the physical shape do you assign code numbers?

    2) system drawing device callouts...assuming you show a device to represent say a temp sensor...do you assign a code to this IE T1-T2..and then a point name ?..do you number these sequentially.....what if you have thermisters and rtd's.....do you use the same code or callout numbers for the same type of sensor from job to job ?....

    3) how do you link the sensor device on drawings to the control panel termination locations....so it would be easy for an electrician to install by ?

    thank you in advance for any suggestions.....really appreciated

  2. #2
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    Mar 2005
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    Are you/do you work for a controls contractor? If so you might check the product line you rep. Many product lines have a lot of this in place in which it makes your life easier.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    What? Who? Where?
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    One of the best specification building websites is www.ctrlspecbuilder.com
    Generates specs, sequences and drawings. In editable Word, autoCAD, Vision and pdf.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Desert Southwest
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    664

    Did I just let he cat outta da bag?

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonCtls View Post
    Folks, we are trying to develop standards in developing professional control design submittals....can you give me some ideas on how you do the following
    1) symbols ...Temp -pressure or humidity sensors..how do you define these in the symbols page....besides the physical shape do you assign code numbers?

    We don't usually do a symbols legend (unless it is in the spec) . Granted it is nice to have when you use a new inexperienced installation sub but any Mechanical Engineer worth his salt can breeze through a set of submittals without it as he/she (pc) looks at the BOM, quantities and SOO.
    No Code numbers. "Most" Engineers just critique and "nitpick" submittals. Problem is they just glance over submittals looking for widgets and "points" because in the plan & spec bid world our object is to bidit as we see it and pray to make a profit by getting change orders to keep the doors open which ticks off the mechanical/GC/Owner because it inevitiablity makes them pay for what they really need which is more expensive then what the Architec lead them to believe during the "Romance".

    2) system drawing device callouts...assuming you show a device to represent say a temp sensor...do you assign a code to this IE T1-T2.. [YES ALWAYS]
    and then a point name ? [ABSOLUTELY] ..do you number these sequentially [MAKES SENSE TO DO SO, CONTROLS FOLK ARE AS ANAL AS IT GETS, ] .....what if you have thermisters and rtd's.....do you use the same code or callout numbers for the same type of sensor from job to job ?.... SURE BUT WE NEVER MIX THE TWO ON THE SAME JOB, WELL ALMOST.

    3) how do you link the sensor device on drawings to the control panel termination locations....so it would be easy for an electrician to install by ?

    I assign a TAG ID like DA-T on the airflow drawing of say a AHU, Fan Coil, VAV etc and then follow that drawing sequentially with the controller drawing using the same ID on the proper input which is followed with an Excell spreadsheet and finally a drawing with termination details.

    thank you in advance for any suggestions.....really appreciated
    In the controls world there is no such thing as too much detail or information. The installation is only as good as the expertise level of the installer.

    I hope this helps you out a little.
    DG

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Near Philly
    Posts
    512
    This is A typical of what I submit, I usually have little trouble with the project engineers.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario
    Posts
    15

    Controls submission standards

    Hi. I am the senior engineer for the largest owner operated controls contractor in a major Canadian market.

    My expectations for a set of shop drawings would include

    - symbols are ASHRAE symbols - no need to reinvent the wheel
    - a legend of symbols
    - a controls schematic for each system
    - a sequence of operations for each system
    - a bill of materials for each system, and the overall project
    - a DDC points list for each controller, sorted by function
    - a valve schedule
    - a motorized damper schedule
    - an index
    - a collection of standard wiring diagrams for various point types.

    We (and everyone else I know) use Microsoft Visio software and tabloid sized paper.

    However much effort you put into shop drawings, you will always run into a consultant that has some additional request , so your style will evolve.

    BTW good shop drawings are conducive to predictable installation costs and smooth startups.


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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,376
    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick50 View Post
    Hi. I am the senior engineer for the largest owner operated controls contractor in a major Canadian market.

    My expectations for a set of shop drawings would include

    - symbols are ASHRAE symbols - no need to reinvent the wheel
    - a legend of symbols
    - a controls schematic for each system
    - a sequence of operations for each system
    - a bill of materials for each system, and the overall project
    - a DDC points list for each controller, sorted by function
    - a valve schedule
    - a motorized damper schedule
    - an index
    - a collection of standard wiring diagrams for various point types.

    We (and everyone else I know) use Microsoft Visio software and tabloid sized paper.

    However much effort you put into shop drawings, you will always run into a consultant that has some additional request , so your style will evolve.

    BTW good shop drawings are conducive to predictable installation costs and smooth startups.
    Pretty close to what we do.

    For the original poster ...

    Take a look at this just for some ideas:

    http://cid-0554c074ec47c396.office.l...t%20100000.pdf

    We use Visio, Excel, and Word but I converted everything to a PDF format so you can see a sampling of how we do things.

    Of course, it's not the complete submittal, and deatils about what project, what customer, etc have been removed.

    But it shows a cover sheet and table of contents, some of the points sheets for each controller, some of the schedules, and some of the drawings.
    A site where I stash some stuff that might be interesting to some folks.
    http://cid-0554c074ec47c396.office.l...e.aspx/.Public

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