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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,328
    Originally posted by joe 40
    Guess what, this idiot(tech)wants to install a 3 1/2 ton unit in my house.

    They checked pressures outside and amps.
    Pressures 250high, 90 low.
    They(there's two on them) said it needed freon!

    I don't know what to believe anymore. They are sure because its a 14seer I get low differential.

    Windows: double pane, tint
    Outside unit 3 ton: Goodman CLQ36-1
    Air handler: ARUF-42
    Please hurry, they'll be back!! Went to get r-22 and ladder.(I know, I'm an idiot too!!)
    What are the a/c service firms
    owner's name and PHONE NUMBER?

    [Edited by dan sw fl on 08-23-2005 at 09:11 PM]
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,597
    make sure when they recover the additional charge in the system, they use an approved recovery machine and tank.

    you get what you pay for.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18

    Thumbs down

    9:40 at night and house is set at 75degrees like they told me to do. It has reached it and it turns on and off, my problem is I know this system is not set up correctly. I almost sure they overcharged it cause of the pressures. Owner of company will come down tommorrow( so he says.) How do I explain to them that even if the house seems cool system is not working correctly.

    Can anyone tell me what subcooling is?

    I know they have added R-22 like 4 times and not once, not even when they installed it was it vacuumed. Could it have air in the line? (contaminates)

    Maybe I'll become an a/c tech after this!!! Sure am learning alot but they think they know more!!!!!!!!
    So why don't they make it work!

    Think they'll pay my electric bill?

    Thanks for all the input!
    Johnny 5 ALIVE!!

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,358
    Originally posted by joe 40
    9:40 at night and house is set at 75degrees like they told me to do. It has reached it and it turns on and off, my problem is I know this system is not set up correctly. I almost sure they overcharged it cause of the pressures. Owner of company will come down tommorrow( so he says.) How do I explain to them that even if the house seems cool system is not working correctly.

    Can anyone tell me what subcooling is?

    I know they have added R-22 like 4 times and not once, not even when they installed it was it vacuumed. Could it have air in the line? (contaminates)

    Maybe I'll become an a/c tech after this!!! Sure am learning alot but they think they know more!!!!!!!!
    So why don't they make it work!

    Think they'll pay my electric bill?

    Thanks for all the input!
    Johnny 5 ALIVE!!
    250/90...and these guys thought it needed MORE GAS?? (I'm assuming we're dealing with R22)The main thing that is "wet" here is their training! Right now your indoor coil is running about 55 degrees when it should be at least ten degrees cooler (@76 psi +/-). No small wonder your supply register temps are so dismal.

    As for "vacuuming" (properly termed "evacuation" in our trade), the only time that is done is when the refrigeration system has been open to the atmosphere. The evacuation is performed to remove all air, non condensables, and as much moisture from the system as possible. This should also be done when a new system is installed, before the factory charge is released from the condensing unit into the lineset and evaporator coil.

    Your installing contractor needs to put you at ease by sending someone with a shred of competency regarding refrigeration theory and application to your home. If they have a top or senior tech, insist he be the next man to cast a shadow over your outdoor unit.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    4,917
    Originally posted by billva
    make sure when they recover the additional charge in the system, they use an approved recovery machine and tank.

    you get what you pay for.
    No need for a recovery machine if the unit is running and you are only removing a partial charge...

    just run your yellow to the liquid side of the tank and with your scale you can tell how much you are removing. (while system is running)I usually remove 4oz. at a time and let it settle for 15 min and take a new superheat./subcool. continue process until readings are right. No need for the recovery machine here...

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,328
    Originally posted by joe 40
    Can anyone tell me what subcooling is?

    Johnny 5 ALIVE!!
    Do you REALLY wish to Know?
    __ Well, here it is...

    Subcool: Temperature difference (in the compresed liquid region) less than saturation point of the particular refrigerant

    See point 3 on Pressure- Enthalpy Diagram

    http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH230/notes/lect29.pdf



    __That's what I suspected!
    You don't really wish to thoroughly pursue this type of technical explanation.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18

    Confused

    ???


    Thanks,Dan. Didn't understand a thing!! Just like you thought!

    Anyway, they've decided to give me another unit. Same size but 12seer. I decided to take it cause was told they probably messed-up the first unit with the crazy pressures.
    Hope this tech can make this unit run properly.

    Think the old tech swam back home. Seriously, I think he fired him!! Well, he didn't know what he was doing and I think he was ripping off the company.(side money)

    I'll stay in touch.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    340
    Originally posted by travisfl
    Originally posted by travisfl
    Did they perform a heat gain calculation?
    Well, is that how they came up with the 3 1/2 ton?
    I give up.

  9. #48
    Dan said:

    Subcool: Temperature difference (in the compresed liquid region) less than saturation point of the particular refrigerant.

    Joe said:
    Didn't understand a thing!!


    Okay, I'm going to give this a try. I'm just a stupid homeowner who read a HVAC book from the library, so take this for what it's worth. I'm also making up some examples as I go - again, they may be totally wrong.

    Firstly, saturation point is the temperature at which a liquid becomes a vapor. Water's saturation point would be 212 degrees F. Based on Dan's definition, subcool is the number of degrees a liquid is from turning into a vapor. Water with 10 degrees of subcool would be 202 degrees.

    I'll try a little more: Superheat is the number of degrees a vapor is above the temp it turned from a liquid to a vapor. Water at 227 degrees F has 15 degrees of superheat.


  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,358
    Firstly, saturation point is the temperature at which a liquid becomes a vapor. Water's saturation point would be 212 degrees F. Based on Dan's definition, subcool is the number of degrees a liquid is from turning into a vapor. Water with 10 degrees of subcool would be 202 degrees.

    I'll try a little more: Superheat is the number of degrees a vapor is above the temp it turned from a liquid to a vapor. Water at 227 degrees F has 15 degrees of superheat.
    Well, you're close, but let's see if we can zero in on the definitions for you as it relates to HVAC.

    It is indeed true that the saturation point is where a substance can become either a liquid or a vapor. In the HVAC trade, in order to establish distinctions between two simultaneous events within a refrigeration circuit, the point at which superheated vapor from the compressor turns into a liquid is referred to as the saturated condensing temperature (SCT). The point at which liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator flashes into a vapor is called the saturated vapor temperature (SVT).

    Superheat is the amount of sensible heat added to the vapor from its saturation point. Subcooling is the amount of sensible heat removed from the liquid from its saturation point. These two values tell a service technician how well a refrigeration system is performing.

    Consider yourself NOT a stupid homeowner.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18

    Hmm

    Travis,no heat calculation was done.

    New system installed today.(3 ton,12 seer,Fedders)
    Will not know how system will operate since home heated to 85 degrees.But,system has already cooled home 10 degrees.
    Looks good so far,will notify you guys tomorrow.

    Was surprised on how much smaller this system is.

    Thanks for trying to explain sub-cooling.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    18

    Hmm

    11:45 and its 95 Degrees outside.

    My digital temp is set at 76 degrees and system is cooling home but of course my vents still let 62-65 degree air. The intake is 75 degrees. 10-12 differential. Need to go to attic to see if any kind of leak exist. Techs said no,but better go make sure.

    I just don't understand why my old 2 1/2 ton could throw 56 degree air from vents and I always had it set at 78degrees. This new unit is now a 3 ton 12 seer and...

    Don't know what gauges marked but they'll be back later today and I'll make sure.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    19
    I am no technician, but I seriously doubt that changing from a 14 SEER to a 12 SEER will fix the problem. I never would have downgraded efficiencies. There are other problems on that system that have yet to be seen. One thing we really have to keep in mind is that equipment means very little in this equation. The install and the ductwork are definitely the majority. There is something there that a good, quality contractor (that doesn't just sell boxes) should find. I am definitely keeping my eye on this post.

    Does anyone else agree with me? Or am I just way wrong?

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