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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,473

    Had to replace a bad TXV in this brand new unit.
    The A/H didn't come with a TXV so they added one.
    Nice ZIP TIE holding the sensing bulb. A ongoing theme over here.



    I replaced it and used a proper sensing bulbe strap.









    Here's what is funny.
    This is a 16i or whatever. Two Stage heat Pump they sold them.






    Couldn't help but to notice the lack of the control board with the speed adjustements for the variable speed blower.
    That's because there IS no veriable speed blower!
    They just used a standard A/H with a simple on/off relay (not even the 80 second fan manager came with this blower), and added the TXV for the 16i and called it good!
    So it ran HIGH SPEED for everything, cont fan, 1st stage cool, etc!


    I added that second relay there so that it is ran to the LOW speed tap by default unless Y2 is energized then HIGH speed tap is used so they get SOME sorts of two speed blower with this 2 stage system!


    They said they could not fit the wider Variable Speed A/H in these closets (installed two 16i's at this home) so this was the only choice.

    Why facking bother??? That's an insult to a high end system by mis matching it like this and otherwise being half ass'd!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    That air handler came with a TXV. It is the unit with the new Vortica blower, only comes in 4 and 5 ton sizes, coil specifically designed for R-410a, comes from the factory with a TXV.

    IT IS NOT TO BE USED WITH THE XL16i UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

    The only aproved matches for the XL16i are the varriable speed units.

    The salesman who sold that system needs to be horse whipped, and your company needs to change that air handler out to one that is approved for use with the XL16i.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,473
    Well... The reason I think that TXV was installed was that it had the WRONG sensing bulb clamp on it and evidence that it was FIELD installed


    Wierd. Wouldn't a A/H that comes with a TXV also have a fan relay with the delay off timer (Fan Manager)????
    Because these have basic 90340 relays and NO delay board!



    I should have went inside and programmed the PRO8000 to do the delay... but anyway.

    They wont change the air handlers. they said the variable speed air handlers are too wide.
    Salesman was there to show me the job since they were in hot water and all for it breaking down already

    He said the installers were supposed to install a speed controller on them motors to MAKE them standard motors variable speed. (NOT even close to the same thing)

    Seems kind if sh*tty for a 16i none the less :/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Trane uses a metal clip to hold the sensing bulb on the suction line, then a black zip tie around the insulation on the bulb. Maybe someone had removed the bulb and reinstalled it without the metal clip before you got there?

    I like that air handler because of its physical size, but it is only for use with the single stage R-410a outdoor units.

    The XL16i is not rated with that air handler, in fact, AS/Trane specifically requires a varriable speed air handler or furnace for the Trane XL16i or the AS equivelent.

    While you can probably get the system to work ok, your company should own the warranty on it.
    I would love to see the reaction from Trane if the salesman tries to submit the paperwork for a 10 year P&L warranty on that system, lol.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 08-21-2005 at 12:01 AM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,473
    That WOULD be funny!

    The bulb DID have a clip and a zip tie. Sad
    It was loose ans a goose!

    Guess we'll have to blame that bad TXV on Trane then. Or maybe some debri got in the lines during install. We'll never know.


    Anyway. I rewired it with that relay because I KNOW they will NEVER do anything about the air handler unless the customer complains. Then want it rigged in the end. So there they go... I made the blower run slow(er) on 1st stage-cont fan mode.

    It is crappy to see a 16i (R410a) and a PRO8000 2 stage t-stat coupled with a basic A/H like that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    275
    That is possibly the worst abortion I have ever seen. I would pay money to be there if the Trane service rep had to come out.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Hey Payson, just to stir the pot a little, recommend to the customer that they get a Trane 10 year P&L warranty, and not to settle for a 3rd party one, tell them to insist on a Trane one!

    Originally posted by bumpkin
    That is possibly the worst abortion I have ever seen. I would pay money to be there if the Trane service rep had to come out.
    I would love to be there too, especially if the Phoenix area rep is someone like James Howard, the Fort Worth area rep. He is a straight shooter, and very very blunt.

    [Edited by mark beiser on 08-22-2005 at 12:56 AM]
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,323
    What's up with that cut in the casing? Did they chop the a/h in half to get it in?
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,473
    Originally posted by billygoat22
    What's up with that cut in the casing? Did they chop the a/h in half to get it in?
    They actually come that way I think. Blower section seperates from coil section. But anything is possible with them.

    I had to go back there to change a condensate drain pan on his GOODMAN unit in his Garage. I guess this is the 2nd time the condensate pan was changed. Good ol' Goodman. Thank God for the 5 yr parts warranty! I didn't touch the Tranes this time. Customer said they seemed to be ok now.


    Funny thing was I was with a installer guy who helped install the drain pan in the Goodman.... Actually, he beat me there and had the new pan going in when I got there.

    When he was trying to get the blower panel on it would not line up, so he was loosening the covers over the coil part (on the Goodman installed horizontally) and then trying to force it all together. It was my chance to tell him that something is TWEEKED with how it is hanging and that we should be able to get that blower panel off and on no problem rather than by lifting in the air handler and forcing it. The installers leave them all tweeked so that when you pull the panels, it's murder to get back on.
    I explained that we ned to remove that panel twice a year for P.M.'s.

    Anyway I observed how it was tweeked and played with the hangers and got the air handler all squared up. Then the panel went right on easy. I think he will get the hang of that now that I explained I CURSED the installers name when I fight them panels like that.

    I also showed him how I do the clean out tee before the p-trap and then used my drain blaster. Sounds like he cared enough to say he'd start installing the drains like that. Said he would show that to his super and other guys. I said "good luck" since I showed someone before but they never cared. Maybe he will make a difference.




  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Originally posted by PaysonHVAC
    Originally posted by billygoat22
    What's up with that cut in the casing? Did they chop the a/h in half to get it in?
    They actually come that way I think. Blower section seperates from coil section. But anything is possible with them.
    I thought the air handlers with the Vortica blower were one piece. If they are 2 piece, it looks like the installers left a piece out where the 2 halves connect together...
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    5,473
    Would not be surprised at all.

    In attic installs they damn near fall apart when I pull the blower panel!

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