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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    258

    Re: r

    Originally posted by jaeme911
    Have any HVAC techs had residential warranty claims denied based upon the lack of homeowner "normal" maintenance of the AC unit?

    More than I can count. The one here asked for the condition of the unit. They drop them like flies. The company is Home guaranty corp.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,376
    Originally posted by twilli3967

    Really.........its not rocket science.
    I will quote ct2's sigline (since he got it from one of my prior posts):

    "No, it's not rocket science, it's electromechanical thermodynamic science."

    A homeowner changing out a blower motor or condenser motor...risky but it's done all the time.
    Homeowner understanding the intricasies of refrigeration theory and application in order to properly diagnose a tricky refrigeration circuir problem the first time without any prior experience? Not likely.

    Homeowners are tempted all the time that everything under their roof is a DIY project by the omnipresence of home centers and DIY shows on a DIY network. It's only natural many will take a crack at HVAC. Some do allright, some bungle it bad.

    Personally, I haven't done resi service since the late eighties/early nineties. I don't remember coming across much DIY work, if any. Unfortunately I did come across more than a few hacked repairs from fellow tradesmen, and being younger in years and experience then, likely contributed a few of that form of work myself.
    However, it seems resi work's a different deal, now. Internet sales, parts houses selling parts to homeowners, the attitude that "it isn't rocket science" as if to imply there's not much complexity at all to our trade.

    It may not be rocket science, but can one who thinks this tell me why a 250 ton cooling tower on a 220 ton chiller can't keep entering condenser water temperature at or below 85 degrees even when the chiller isn't at full load (clean tower, clean everything)? I know the answer, it isn't rocket science, but it does require a little understanding of psychrometrics.

    Hmmm...do rocket scientists use psychrometrics?

    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    49

    Re: Re: r

    revenex

    I was wondering about the denial of warranty claims by the manufacturer (ie Goodman).

    Originally posted by ravenx
    Originally posted by jaeme911
    Have any HVAC techs had residential warranty claims denied based upon the lack of homeowner "normal" maintenance of the AC unit?

    More than I can count. The one here asked for the condition of the unit. They drop them like flies. The company is Home guaranty corp.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    258
    jaeme911,

    I'm a certified "good care" provider. If it is brought to goodmans attention that the unit has not been regularly serviced, they will not warranty the repair.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Short version: Had inside of house painted sometime ago, lost remote for ceiling fan, bought new one, need to be rewired as remote wouldn't turn fan on, installed new controler box for fan speeds, no diagram, light work with remote, when I tried fan, I let the smoke out of new controller. Wife at lowes buying new fan. Should have called a PRO. lol.....
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  6. #45
    Senior Tech Guest
    Originally posted by lusker
    I get so disgusted when I continue to hear this phrase. It is not rocket science What is not rocket science… how about everything except rocket science.

    OK… is your job rocket science? Now throw in electronics, electro mechanical, hydro mechanical, hydraulics, refrigerant latent absorption, evaporation, simple mechanical, low and high voltage mechanics and codes, air flow balancing, duct sizing, heat gain and loss mechanics… do you get my meaning here??

    So the next time your heat goes out and you find yourself fumbling in the dark … go ahead… strike that match or it’s OK, go ahead to grab that loose wire and twist it together and close your eyes when you turn it on…. we are rocket scientists in our profession and we know when it is safe to flip the switch.

    Yep, there are guys like you that get lucky and do a great job keeping your system running. There will come a time when you will need a poor slob like us to come and pull your tally whacker out of a ditch ‘cause your tried your hand at it first. We see it every day and just salivate over the bill. Yep, the ‘ol college fund is growing nicely because of DIY’ers and rocket science.
    You have awoken a sleeping giant....heed his words or suffer the consequences of a flat wallet...put simply, you try and fix and can't...I'm going to charge as much as I possibly can and not lose a single bit of sleep over it. As Lusker says so much elegantly...how dare any of you suggest "it's not rocket science", perhaps not, but I will put my skills and knowledge up against anyone in a comparible test, to include doctors, scientists or any other. And remember just because you "got it to work" doesn't make it right, you got it to work but probably at the expense of spending more monthly $$$ in energy bills. So if you come here looking for advice on how to do it yourself...shame on you, this is how I and my fellow hvac techs make our living and feed our family...come here and try to take food out of families mouth and then complain when you get scorned....TOUGH!

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    76
    Originally posted by senior tech
    come here and try to take food out of families mouth and then complain when you get scorned....TOUGH!
    The words of a man who gets the dealer to change his wiper blades.

    I think you've found the attitude that causes people to not call for techs, the one called arrogance.

    Perhaps the reason DIY is more popular has to do with the reason there's twice as many posts in the "Wall of Shame" as the "Wall of Pride"

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Wow all this lather because some homeowner wants to work on there own equipment. Let em, they own it. They paid for it. How many of you have ever put brakes on your car? Are you a certified auto mechanic? Do you need to be? The only certification you need is an epa card. Lot's of areas of the country have no licensing at all.

    Does a license make you qualified? Not necessarily, but if the state or local jurisdication doesn't think you need one how do you expect the public to respect us?

    Try doctoring with out a license in any state and the next person you may examine or who examines you will be your cell mate.

    Quit worrying about a few homeowners/diyer that want to save a few bucks, they really are not our problem. Our problem in many areas is "us".

    Do you take your John Deer to the dealership to change the oil, put on new blades, etc...I don't, but if I need the transmission or engine worked on I would.

    Why shouldn't someone that feels comfortable working around electrical and gas attempt the repair? I'm not suggesting that we give them advice, many do though, just read through some oof the posts.

    All I'm saying is that many repairs made on HVAC equipment can be made by someone that is fairly competent and mechanically inclined.





    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  9. #48
    Senior Tech Guest
    Originally posted by bentruler
    Originally posted by senior tech
    come here and try to take food out of families mouth and then complain when you get scorned....TOUGH!
    The words of a man who gets the dealer to change his wiper blades.

    I think you've found the attitude that causes people to not call for techs, the one called arrogance.

    Perhaps the reason DIY is more popular has to do with the reason there's twice as many posts in the "Wall of Shame" as the "Wall of Pride"
    Wiper Blades done by others...employed in the automotive field. Arrogance...not hardly, passionate...definately.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tyler TX
    Posts
    676

    Re: r

    Originally posted by jaeme911
    Have any HVAC techs had residential warranty claims denied based upon the lack of homeowner "normal" maintenance of the AC unit?
    I have denied warranty claims for this reason. Why should we drive up our cost by trying to save a home owner, that is too cheap to have is unit serviced, money. If you don't change the oil in new car, do you think you will just get a new engine when the engine stops.
    HVAC Contractor, Tyler Texas.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    49
    And this would be the reason I take on all repairs myself. Seems most service people I've had contact with over the years have this mentality.

    One little trick I use to avoid this type of gouging is to pay for a service call written diagnostic estimate with a credit card if the remedy seems too expensive. I'll let the service person know that I will be obtaining other diagnostic estimates. Most will take a second look and find a more minor problem (surprise,). If not and the next service person finds a more minor problem then I dispute the fraudulent service person's charge with my credit card company. I've never had to use it with an HVAC person since I've handled my own repairs.

    i]Originally posted by senior tech [/i]
    [B][QUOTE][i]I'm going to charge as much as I possibly can and not lose a single bit of sleep over it."


  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    435
    The only problem I have with the original statement is the generality that homeowners do not understand what a HVAC system consists of or the precautions one needs to take when repairing. There is an exception to the rule!
    To be honest I have seen some licensed contractors do things and say things that really makes you wonder! Maybe if the homeowner knew there were more stringent qualifications put on the field and the qualifications were constantly being checked there would be no question.
    It's no different than a licensed contractor coming on site and trying to repair a system that they never trained on! I think some of the posts on this site have exposed some of those issues! Afterall they don't want to go to the training classes because they loose a days pay!
    Understandable, but at least tell the homeowner you are not qualified to work on system you are not familiar with!

    [Edited by kevinmac on 08-25-2005 at 09:40 AM]

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    258
    Homeowners do not understand what a HVAC system consists of or the precautions one needs to take when repairing.

    This statement is exactly on the mark. HVAC systems have real potential to cause pain, discomfort and yes, even death. This is why I posted the thread in the first place.

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