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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,065
    As HVAC guys, I sure you do a ton of work in new construction areas. I am just a soda guy trying not be a soda jerk.

    Yesterday at the new Olive Garden, I needed the plumber to do fittings for our water supply to the unit. I told him no hurry.

    The guy comes back in about an hour and tosses the fittings at me and says this is what you need, and walks away!

    I was speechless, at first. I am not a plumber and I am not about to do their work.

    Later the GC stopped by and I told him what happened. He said to put the fittings on!

    Well this time I was not speechless. I told the GC that in all the times I have worked on new construction this has never happened and I AM NOT doing the plumbers work.

    Later on another plumber comes over with a pleasant attitude and is more than willing to work with me.

    Is this the norm and the mentality of people trying to dump on other people when putting up new construction?

    Just what is the construction mentality and can it even be defined?
    I pray not for an easy life but that I be a strong person.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,864
    Originally posted by sodadude
    QUESTION?

    Just what is the construction mentality and can it even be defined?
    Answer: Get in and get out!


    We have X number of dollars it install a percisely defined system. So we want to come out of the job with as many of those dollars left as possible.

    There are a lot of grey areas about who is suppose to do what. I always tell my guys, "If somebody wants to do something for you---let them.!"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    On unrelated note: Where have you been, on vacation?

    Are you going to the convention in Baltimore?

    And, were is the new Olive Garden going in?

    [Edited by benncool on 08-13-2005 at 07:44 AM]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,598
    Be specific in the proposal and stick with it.
    "The road to Hell is paved with progressive policies."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    I do a lot of resturaunt refrigeration construction. The niche of resturaunt new construction has gotten so bad for the trades, that I am considering making this last project I am about to do, be the last one I ever do. The Superintendants, who are suppose to manage and run the job, they are just a glorified carpenter, not what a superintendant use to be.

    The money is not there any longer. And so if someone walks up to me to do something just a little extra, I get pissed off. For me, it's a always a toss up whether the plumber runs my condensate lines or not. It depends on how the plans read and what I bid. And every damn time that they are suppose run them, at the end I got to get into a pissing match about who is suppose to run them. So I only bid jobs where I do them. And have it figured in. Another big one for me is roof penetrations. Every single time I punch a hole I got the GC tryng to get me to play roofer when it clearly states I aint responsible for dressing that hole.

    You think we got it bad? Dude. Electricians got it worse. With all the control wiring going in to these stores for hvac, security, fire ect, they end up having a ton of extras that they never anticipated, usually because the other trades **** on them and the general thinks if it's a wire, it is an electricians job. I have a good buddy, been freinds for years, who does a lot of resturaunts too. He's getting to the point where he is about ready to stop doing them simply because, the plans are so "grey" and the bids are so "broad in scope" that anyone can come and tell you, "hey this is your guys job".

    It's mass confusion any more on jobsites too. These superintendants are fricken idiots. You got tile floors and drop ceilings going in before the trades are done with their rough in. It's unbeleiveable.

    I use to make good money on these jobs and have a good time also. But now the chains, going to the national manufacturers, also employing construction crews full time that travel, I mean there are a ton of reasons but, there just aint any money in them no more, plus it's a miserable work day.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Alpharetta, GA
    Posts
    168
    Originally posted by Dowadudda

    You think we got it bad? Dude. Electricians got it worse. With all the control wiring going in to these stores for hvac, security, fire ect, they end up having a ton of extras that they never anticipated, usually because the other trades **** on them and the general thinks if it's a wire, it is an electricians job. I have a good buddy, been freinds for years, who does a lot of resturaunts too. He's getting to the point where he is about ready to stop doing them simply because, the plans are so "grey" and the bids are so "broad in scope" that anyone can come and tell you, "hey this is your guys job".

    So true Dow!

    I do controls, and 75% of my work is new construction. I depend on the fitters and sparkys, and they get screwed by everyone.

    If I can help a fitter or sparky by tying something in that I need, I do it. We work together as much as possible and rarely have a problem.

    I agree, the root cause of all this mess is shoddy work on the engineering and specs. The Project Managers deserve a share of the blame also. It's usually the guys in the Carhardts that make everything work.

    By the way, I've been lucky, I have worked for some really good Superintendants. There are still some really good ones out there.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    947
    I dispise new construction and my hat is off to those of you who do it... IMO, often the guys in the field are not given the full scope of the job so they can't help but be confused...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,864
    Fortunately I live in an area were the zoning boards fight tooth and nail to keep these fast-food cookie cutter type buildings from poping up. So custom built is the norm. One of a kind projects tend to keep these gypsy construction crews from being competative with us local contractors. So it is not as cut throat around here.

    Chili's has had a sign on a site here for 3 years."Coming Soon!"
    Last I heard they were fighting over an old tree that was planted during the time of Jefferson. If a fast food outfit wanted to come into town and renovate an existing building they would bend over backwards to give them permits. I guess they just don't get it. It just doesn't make sense to change the plans and specs for some little hick town.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,157
    but most people are just plain afraid to help one another out. When I worked as a millwright, you didnt dare do anything for another trade, not because you didnt want to help out but if you got caught by your super or lead that would be your last day on that project. If that would have been one of the projects we worked on the plumber wouldnt have even given you the fittings

    But when something goes wrong you should see how quick they all are to point the fingers at each other--it usually takes longer for them to figure out who is at fault than it does to solve the problems

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    7,403
    I've seen it a lot, and once and a while I'll make someone else do "thier" job vs me doing it. Doesn't happen as much anymore since I mostly do residential, but in the commercial world, man it's crazy.

    If I was working on a site and someone asked me to do something I knew wasn't in my spec, or I called the boss and asked and it wasn't, it was time to fill out a quick work order with time and materials for a change order. Most of them were pretty small, so whether the company got thier money for the change order didn't matter, the job still made money. But they got to throw some papers to the other trades and show that a lot of BS was goin on at the site that shouldn't be.

    Now as for the real change orders... the guy I used to work with taught me a lot on how to make more work for yourself on job sites. He'd come up with all sorts of ideas to propose to the GC (or who ever he could) for nifty lil gadgets or build small things for the job. Sure helped the jobs make even more money.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,191
    Ever notice the smarter trades are more willing to talk and work together, but the stupid people go in and screw everyone elses stuff up?

    No stupid people allowed!

    On the 911 building that we filled the room with duct, I planned in space for the sparky before
    the duct was even made. 4" above ducts for his conduit and my linesets, and checked to make sure things were going to work OK with them.

    Too bad they can't run BX in there (all emt), they'd be done by now.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Orange County CA
    Posts
    1,084
    I do alot of Supermarket construction.

    Dow is right.
    The electricians by far have it the worst. I'm always having to lean on them ( sheepishly ) to get things done .
    But it seems to me it is understood ( in markets anyway ) , when a refrigeration guy needs controls pulled here to there or a gutter put up for E.M S. , there is no bickering .
    The store has to get health approval by a certain date , and if it ain't done , I'll point the finger at him and he'll be smoked by the G.C..
    I totally respect most electricians , and I give them their time and space , but when it's time to go , I needs power .
    They have a tough gig.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,065

    Talking answers

    Originally posted by benncool
    Originally posted by sodadude
    QUESTION?

    Just what is the construction mentality and can it even be defined?
    Answer: Get in and get out!


    We have X number of dollars it install a percisely defined system. So we want to come out of the job with as many of those dollars left as possible.

    There are a lot of grey areas about who is suppose to do what. I always tell my guys, "If somebody wants to do something for you---let them.!"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    On unrelated note: Where have you been, on vacation?

    Are you going to the convention in Baltimore?

    And, were is the new Olive Garden going in?

    [Edited by benncool on 08-13-2005 at 07:44 AM]
    Yes vacation in Virginia beach, no to Baltimore, I am anti social, and Olive Garden in Keene NH.


    We had three installs going on at the same time in the same area, Chilis, Longhorn and Olive Garden.
    I pray not for an easy life but that I be a strong person.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,065
    Originally posted by Dowadudda
    ".

    It's mass confusion any more on jobsites too. These superintendants are fricken idiots. You got tile floors and drop ceilings going in before the trades are done with their rough in. It's unbeleiveable.

    This is so true!!! One place I walk into, nothing is roped off and the tile guy yells, Hey your walking on my grout.

    I look at my friend and ask why are they grouting a floor at the start of the job? Very strange.

    And yeah they are doing drop ceiling earlier in the project, real fun to try to run stiff bundle tubing with out damaging their precious little tiles and wimpy holding frames.
    I pray not for an easy life but that I be a strong person.

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