Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 45
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,812
    Quote Originally Posted by mcr View Post
    Hate to tell you this but dollars to to doughnuts you have a bad Evaporator. I had an auto A/C shop for years and this is sort of what made me get out of it. I was a one man deal. Used to be you had a tiny leak and a recharge would last a couple of years. Then it got to every car that came in was empty with no obvious signs of a leak. Or one would come in with oil dripping out of the condenser and you would replace it, vacuum test and pressure test ok and in 2 months it was empty again . Evaps every time.Especially on Chrysler products. I hardly ever had a bad evap until the late 90's. Customers were not happy and I ended up eating some labor time on an evap replacement. Usually an all day job too with some estimated at 15 hrs in the labor guide. I ended up farming some of the replacements out and concentrated on the diagnosing when system is full problems. Used to be an A/C repair was under $500. Now it's $1500 and up! People started replacing the whole car!
    Would not be so bad if you could change the evaporator from the engine compartment side of the fire wall.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    houston, texas
    Posts
    3,787
    At the least find access to some nitrogen and pressure test it at 120psi or so. Don't go through all this without being absolutely sure it's leak free.
    I'm not tolerating Political Correctness anymore, from now on it's tell it like it is.

    Veto Pro Pak - The best tool bag you'll ever own






  3. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by mcr View Post
    Hate to tell you this but dollars to to doughnuts you have a bad Evaporator. I had an auto A/C shop for years and this is sort of what made me get out of it. I was a one man deal. Used to be you had a tiny leak and a recharge would last a couple of years. Then it got to every car that came in was empty with no obvious signs of a leak. Or one would come in with oil dripping out of the condenser and you would replace it, vacuum test and pressure test ok and in 2 months it was empty again . Evaps every time.Especially on Chrysler products. I hardly ever had a bad evap until the late 90's. Customers were not happy and I ended up eating some labor time on an evap replacement. Usually an all day job too with some estimated at 15 hrs in the labor guide. I ended up farming some of the replacements out and concentrated on the diagnosing when system is full problems. Used to be an A/C repair was under $500. Now it's $1500 and up! People started replacing the whole car!
    I got to the point where I could change the chronically bad Voyager evaps in about 7 hours.

    At least they should design 'em so you can slide the heater box out under the dash easily, instead of making you take the entire dash assembly and lay it on the front seats!!!!

    Every time I had one of these cars in, it was pressurize, get it up in the air, and get the tip of my cps leak seeker in the evap drain.

    10 guys, and I was the only one who could do AC correctly. Sad, really.

    Maybe he'll get lucky. I never put an evap in a Crown Vic.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas-Tech View Post
    At the least find access to some nitrogen and pressure test it at 120psi or so. Don't go through all this without being absolutely sure it's leak free.

    That is an excellent suggestion. Why do all the work, for naught?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Silver Spring, Md
    Posts
    19
    OK, on the nitrogen. Maybe I can rent a tank. What king of fitting/adapter do I need? The gauge set I have is R134a, I think it has 1/2" fittings. I put nitrogen in with the compressor NOt running? And watch for an hour to see if it holds pressure? I have a 1/4 hose and an adapter so I can use the vacuum pump and tank in the same set up. One of these will work with the nitrogen I guess. There's an AC supply company near me. It's called Airco I think.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Silver Spring, Md
    Posts
    19
    And I had another long reply to other stuff mentioned earlier but some how it got lost.

    I replaced and oiled all the O-rings. No springs, they all went in smoothly tho.

    I'll put the stock orifice tube in.

    PAG 46 oil. FJC pump oil. Not the same I know.

    It's gotta be at least 15 hrs to change the evap on a Ford Crown Vic. I did the heater core tho a year ago and maybe I could do this too.

    I'm confused about this putting liquid in the system instead of gas. I'll write another note about my problem understanding this because I don't want this meassage to get bounced.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by disston View Post
    And I had another long reply to other stuff mentioned earlier but some how it got lost.

    I replaced and oiled all the O-rings. No springs, they all went in smoothly tho.

    I'll put the stock orifice tube in.

    PAG 46 oil. FJC pump oil. Not the same I know.

    It's gotta be at least 15 hrs to change the evap on a Ford Crown Vic. I did the heater core tho a year ago and maybe I could do this too.

    I'm confused about this putting liquid in the system instead of gas. I'll write another note about my problem understanding this because I don't want this meassage to get bounced.
    It's a lot faster getting the charge in as a liquid. Liquid belongs in the part of the system between the compressor and the orifice tube. The condenser should be able to take the entire charge.

    OR, you can bleed it in the low side and take for-ev-er. At least you have an accumulator to help protect the compressor from any liquid.

    When I did an evap, I always went with OEM. They were already chagrined about the voyager failures, and so they were taking a LOT of care to recover from that blunder. So, I felt very good about the replacement evaps.

    I always recommended an evap when doing a heater core. Too much trouble to not do it at the same time.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    101
    Many times automotive system ac failure is called the black death. Lots of black crud contaminating the system. If not flushed clean another failure happens soon. Parts houses usually will not warranty the new comp. without a new accumulator/ drier. Thorough leak test is a must - usually means owning an electronic sniffer. Check air side of evap. for debris like leaves etc. I once found a plastic shopping bag had sucked into system. Micron gage is only way to verify system is dry. Charging 134A must be done as a liquid. Check if tank needs to be inverted. Charge most of weight into high side with system off. Start system and finish charge slowly into low side. Comp. clutch will remain engaged when charge is nearly complete. Stop charging when scale reaches nameplate amount. With cooling on max. a thermometer placed in dash vent should read mid to high forties. Good Luck

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    1,801
    Timebuilder, when were those Voyager failures, which production years? I just bought a 2000 Caravan with a leak I have not looked for, yet.
    Jason

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Silver Spring, Md
    Posts
    19
    I looked closely at the evap when I did the heater core. It was not doable with out extra disco. So it didn't get done at that time. I realize some of the work is the same. But not all.

    I understand it's faster, liquid. So with compressor unplugged so it doesn't start and the tank upside down on the scale, the scale is on the ground. The system is vacuumed with one hose and the pump is isolated with it's own valve. Low side valve is closed and liquid is put in high side. When scale reads correct amount of gas is installed the tank is turned off. How does the system get all of the liquid and gas out of the hoses? Isn't some of the gas left in the hoses? Or after tank is turned off and the system is started the low side can be opened to suck in the rest of gas?

    I hope this is not too much of a DIY question. What am I not getting?

    I have to turn in soon. I'm quitting cigarettes tomorrow. I hope.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Silver Spring, Md
    Posts
    19
    OK. That helps a bit about the liquid mystery. I'll be able to handle liquid I think.

    I am replacing the condenser, new. The compressor, new. The accumulator/dryer, new. The hoses were flushed with Kwik Klean. The evap was flushed with the same. I used two quarts of flush. The hoses are in good condition. I got a lot of black debris out of stuff, especially the evaporator. All of this was done a week ago.

    I'm going to take the system apart again to put in the stock orifice tube.

    I'm going to check into getting some nitrogen but I may have to take my chances. I know this doesn't sound professional, I can't help it. I'm a little over whelmed at the moment. I'll see if I can get some nitrogen.

    This is the fourth time I have tried to fix this system. I've gotten black stuff out of it every time. I know about black death. I never flushed the system before. I'm sure that helps. Might be the key I think. I bough a 4 cfm Robinair pump. In the past I've only had access to an antique pump that belongs to my housemate. The Robinair 15424 seems very strong but I don't have a Micron gauge. I figure 2 hours of pumping have got to be enough. And I would let it sit over night but I've been reading a lot on these pages and this now seems like a bad idea because the hoses will leak?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    263
    fixing it 4 times ... you might want to take it by a pro for another opinion if nothing else. sure sounds like you've replaced a lot of parts not necessary.

    what the nitrogen does is to pressurized system to flush out leaks that will not show up until operating pressures are reached. a small shot of refrigerant is sometimes used to allow use of a sniffer.

    a micron gauge is the only way to get an accurate vacuum reading. how deep/long vacuum can be held is another indicator of a tight system. sticking a vacuum pump for two hours on a system that leaks will net you zero.

    working on AC is extremely equipment intensive as you are finding out
    that's why taking it to a pro ... sometime is the cheapest solution.
    buying all the tools and learning how things work is my preferred way

    so don't give up ... if you want to learn how AC works

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    16,995
    Quote Originally Posted by bja105 View Post
    Timebuilder, when were those Voyager failures, which production years? I just bought a 2000 Caravan with a leak I have not looked for, yet.
    I believe they were in the mid 90's.

    Find the rubber condensate drain and with thew system dry, stick your leak detector in there. If your evap is the problem, it will go nuts. If you still have some charge in the system, that is. If not, give it a few Oz's and pressurize with N.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event